Junk Show

mojo · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 11:18 am Post subject:

all i know is that the photographers i know take the pics themselves and submit them where they want to try to get them to appear. if you dont like open source of things dont work in the internet bus.

BB · Backside 180 Joined: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 1706

tampa jimmie, You have to realize what "quality stuff" is. A single shot from the boat is not it. While they are cool to watch and see them shred, it is not a top quality vid that needs to be posted on and "online magazine". If the right people were involved in a site that claims to be professional and stuck with actual top quality product, then ws.com would have little to no affect on them. It would not hurt them but maybe strengthen them in the fact that people see someone shred from a single boat shot on the forums to going over to the professional site to see a higher quality and overall a better produced piece of work...

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10752 City: Jefferton

tampa jimmie, that blog post doesn't read the way it originally did.

And for clarification, are you trying to say that people are posting amazing write ups in the ws.com forums, and are therefore ruining it for other media outlets? Can you give me five good examples of this occurring? (not to mention that people do not upload their "best" videos to ws.com, they use vimeo and the like. I don't even know why that was said, unless it was directed elsewhere. ) Please do not use this whole ordeal as a way to set yet another "us vs them" line in this industry, because you KNOW I'm down for what you're doing. And sorry if I'm misinterpreting your POV, but I'm seeing a lot of "forums" and "this site" and you're posting on ws.com (and I've re-read your post numerous times). So please, correct me if I'm wrong after reading this.

I just need to say that if people are stressing about content, evaluate your voice and your point of view and what YOU have to offer wakeskating. If you can't come up with content ideas, tap into your creativity or find some inspiration. This thread is seriously bringing out a weird side of people because once someone or something goes down the dumper (like the standerd and what have you), the vultures are swarming for the remains.

Straight up, there are no outside contributors for the ws.com front page (though scott a has done a bit, and there have been a few random contributions), and that is why it's so far behind. I wish it wasn't like that, but that's how it is. We cannot pay people which is why I don't even bother other people about it. If riders/writers want a platfrom for a voice that's accessible to the global community, it's here. If not, things won't change much. Most people seem to come for the forums, but I like trying to craft wakeskate related content, and this site gives me that freedom. plus, the whole idea with some of the stuff, like the history section, was to give kids something accessible and info that might come up on a web search (since at the time, most historically related material was in old print mags). So it really doesn't get lost. Someone at the expo pointed out that there's a LOT of history on this site, and it's like the one thing that keeps him stoked. There is value in this.

Finally, it's humanly IMPOSSIBLE for me to come up with 20 new articles in a month. and I refuse to subscribe to the choppy and short blog style. In my mind, I make sure that my articles are not presented as after thoughts, or concepts that scratch the surface of the subject they're exploring. As an example, the expo write ups are in depth and contain a lot of info, and each takes a long time to not only write, but post, upload the images, order the images, HTML them in or link them, etc etc.

Outside of that malarky, thank you for the compliment, jesse and lollar.

tampa jimmie · Frontside 180 Joined: 04 Feb 2005 Posts: 406 City: tampa

I dont see anything being "us vs. them". I think there is just US. We are all part of the same community and should not be divided.

If the blog is that different from what it originally said, then I probably cant argue the original point anymore. From what I read it was a rant about being frustrated with contributers. Which I can understand. Im not sure if the average person understands that being in charge of a media outlet is very hard work and not very rewarding. Its all about an attempt to make things better and increase exposure.

I think this site is an invaluable resource for what we all do but I also respect that Alliance has a site dedicated to our sport too. Im for any and all extra media outlets for wakeskating.

I hope none of this comes out wrong because we are all sitting at home typing instead of hanging out somewhere having a discussion.

jonnyUTAH · Backside 180 Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 1951

I think that, in this case, it might be good to try to see the forest through the trees.

Personally, I don’t see Brooke’s article as a direct attack on wakeskating per say – but rather, it is an opinion piece which points out a growing paradigm shift in media in general.

If you Google Scholar “Participatory Journalism,” “Citizen Journalism,” or “e-Journalism,” you will get plenty of quality academic Journals that deal with the current transitions in online media. It’s impacting everyone. It is changing print publications, freelance journalism, and the entire journalist profession in general. Like anything, it has its pros/cons…

Lollar · 360 flip Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 8253

jonnyUTAH, I think the problem was with the slander of this site.

LakeLife · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject:

This is my take and my take only on what is happening in the "wake" as a whole, and "wakeskating" industry. Oh boy where do I start....okay.

Who has stepped up to invest heavily in wakeskating over PAST years? We'll that's an easy answer, all of the wakeboarding companies that are now producing wakeskates. That's where MOST of the production started at least. This is simply an evolution of water sports folks. I mean who really sees that many bouy hookers out there these days? Wakeboarding is where all the money is right now in this industry and by God it took the sport of wakeboarding multiple years to get to where it is today as far as creating cash flow and having access to large budgets to promote growth. With that being said, wakeboarding (in my eyes) is beginning to peak, they're time has come and everyone is enjoying the return right now. I also believe that there's just not that much more you can do on a wakeboard these days. Wakeskating is just now starting to gain popularity and is not just a side show to wakeboarding anymore. A big up goes to all the pioneers of our sport who have tried to separate the two from each other and make wakeskating its own sport in every way. We all know who these folks are, and we thank them for it dearly. However, we (the wakeskate community/industry) are still very very small in the grand scheme of things. People in the "wake" industry have had some brilliant ideas, some have charged after them, been successful, or charged and fiznailed. This is nothing new in the business world, no matter what industry or field you are in with trying to wrap your arms around something brand new. Don't even get me started with waste to energy and alternative fuels, because that developing industry is way more complicated than wakeskating. People are always trying to get in where they fit in or establish a niche if you will. Entrepreneurship(sp), taking risks! Wakeboarding companies have taken the risk to start investing more heavily in the wakeskate market simply to spread out there eggs and not put them in one basket, probably a good business move. This has allowed our market to develop rapidly over the past few years and has made it competitive i.e. wakeskate specific board companies, shoes, and other skate related companies with various products have been able to jump in the game to promote and share the market with the big boys. Unfortunately, not everyone has a budget like LF or Hyperlite to just go throw money at something and hope for the best. Our "small business" entities are much more refined and have to work more diligently and prudent with respect to what they are marketing and how they market it. Seeing Cassette and now The Standerd go away is really disappointing in that those visions we're fuel for the fire in our wakeskate community. Although The Standerd captured both sports, they we're giving the wakeskate market a legitimate focus for all to see...I've never seen so many sk8 photos in a single publication up until this point, unless you want to count WakeskateLife or the "Wakeskate Edition" of FLWakeMagazine. And i'm talking PRINTED publications, not the old school Alliance online. The media is just not focused right now on wakeskating simply because it's too big of a risk and return is just not where it needs to be. Imagine that? Switching gears to "small business">>>> Now that's not to say at all that wakeskate specific companies are not generating some cash flow. They are and we need to thank them for all their hard work because it's these folks that have brought us to where we are today. The wakeskate industry 8 years ago compared to what it is now, is like night and day...The growth has been amazing, and like all of you in the wakeskate world, for me it has been a wonderful thing to see develop and gain the respect it deserves as its own sport, community, culture, etc. The dynamic of our market is definitely not the same as wakeboarding, and we all know that. Wakeskating is so much more accessible than wakeboarding and that's where we have the advantage and upper hand on progression.

Here's where I have an issue with our current state with regards to the market and media??? Why is everything and everyone so fragmented??? I truly believe that if we practiced smarter business tactics/ethics/marketing we would all be getting to that one common goal in the end. The lack of commroderie and support amongst each other weather it be business or media is not helping us get to where we all want to be any faster. If everyone in this industry was really trying to help our sport grow at an astronomical rate, then people would be more willing to work with each other, establish relationships, help each other out on different fronts weather it be an event, project, video, publication, etc. Simply put there is no one out there that I know of who that has the ability to "jump start the wakeskate industy" single handidly. Nike would be the closest if there was one, but again, once entity can only do so much. That's why I truly believe that relying on one another to grow our sport indefinitley is the key to make this whole deal go the way we want it to go. I'd like to reference Josh Kirby's signature on this board quoting Nick Sloan. "It's just wakeskating, no one knows who you are.......except for maybe some kids on the internet." This is so true right now...I mean c'mon people there are only some kids I can count on 1 hand that MIGHT get clobbered by a couple of people who know what wakeskating is, while say, walking around in public. Here's something to think about...Let's put Nick Taylor next to Kobe Bryant in an airport walking side by side. Is there really going to be a line of kids who know who Nick is and not Kobe? And this is no disrespect by any means, i'm just trying to prove a point here. Everyone knows who Kobe Bryant is and what he looks like. I'd be willing to bet more know of Kobe Bryant then they do Nick Taylor. What i'm saying is our sport is still very very small and so are the demographics and it bothers me that MOST (not all) of our community is under the impression that the time is now to get rich on wakeskating. Thats a joke! Wakeskating is far from generating the cash flow that the wakeboarding industry has just now gotten to. Look how long it took, i'm sure it seemed like an eternity to the 1st big investors, and years later they're just now seeing healthy returns. Patience and perserverance are virtues my friends, and were just not there yet, and we got a long way to go. Wakeskating isn't about money right now, it's about everyone doing their part weather you build boards or make videos to plant the seed for future growth and demand. The demand for our industry and sport as a whole is weaker than most right now. There are only a handfull of us (sponsoring companies, riders, product manufacturers, etc.) that make up this sport when your comparing it to sports like surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding, and just now wakeboarding. Look at the demographic we're dealing with as well, very small, as business is concerned. The only people funneling money into the industry are the people that have an interest in doing so or consumers that know wakeskating exists as its own sport. I say all that to say this, more people who have nothing to do with boadsports or could care less about them know what a wakeboard, snowboard, and skateboard is. Not so much a wakeskate, "oh you mean you wear shoes and your feet aren't attached"!?!?! I continue to go through these conversations with many walks of life, nearly on a daily basis. I wouldn't be repeating myself if our market was so big and people were coming out of the woodworks to invest. Wakeskating has not been brought to the masses, it's not known about and is foreign to many people, speaking from a business standpoint only. I see a lot of greedy unwillingness out there to support each other for growth for the time being. It's up to all of us to develope this sport and push it in the direction we want it to go, not just a few people or a few entities. If we do not come together to support one another, establish working relationships for the common good of our sport, then we're just spinning our wheels and not moving forward. I feel that the people out there that have a passion for what we do, weather its skating with our friends, pressing boards, editing vids, or taking photos should rely on each other for this growth that we've all been wanting and waiting for. And not be so quick to try and make a dollar, because that's jumping ahead of the development of this market weather people want to agree with that or not, its true. It's all passion right now, and will always be, but maybe under different circumstances in the future if people can learn how to actually form legit working relationships that bring one another up. Unfortunatley, it takes money to make money, and last time I checked there isn't anyone getting rich off wakeskating besides some of those few sponsored kids that ride their hearts out and have some nice contracts. My main point in all of this is that its not about the money right now, the wakeskating industry is pre-mature in generating mad cash flow. We've been struggling to get there and the only way its going to happen is if we come together to support one another, that's what our community should be all about, at least thats what i thought this community was about. We're different than the rest. Why let the business views and strategies of large entities take us in a direction we don't necessarily always agree with? We all do what we do because we are passionate about wakeskating in one way or another, and that should be the main focus on how to grow this industry and create the demand we've all wanted for so long. Why wait to see what happens in the future? We should be working together now to create and establish how "we" as wakeskaters, editors, manufacturers, owners, and photographers want our sport to be perceived by other board sports and sports in general. I strongly believe and feel that if the wakeskate community came together to support everyone as a whole right now, instead of supporting select entities ONLY, and bashing others, cash flow for our sport would begin to appear sooner than later across all fronts and professions under the same umbrella. We need a wakeskate revolution and the time is more ripe now than ever for everyone thats been along for the ride, continuing to bring there expertise to the table.

Note: This is just my point of view and what I believe is the truth, if you don't agree or think it's complete bs, that's fine, we agree to disagree, the beauty of ws.com Cool

-b-rau- · Pop Shuvit Joined: 27 Feb 2004 Posts: 224

Lollar, who do you think you are? Rufio? I think your just sexist..

tampa jimmie, good posts man.. I don't think people understand or appreciate how much work brooke puts into alliance.

even if she doesnt skate: Those who can’t do, teach. And those who can’t teach, teach gym.

OTT Productions · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject:

I think she was just letting off some steam and that blog is her own, it's not like she put it on AWS.com. I think this might have gotten to be a little more than it should....

LakeLife, I can't believe to wrote so much!!! Shocked