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Wakeskating: Rider owned vs corporate companies
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Grouch
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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2005 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MODED! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Last edited by Grouch on Feb 09, 2005 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kento911
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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2005 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theres no A in mode lol
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Grouch
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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2005 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kento911,

thanks. Laughing

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ThomasNguyen
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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2005 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kento911 wrote:
Quote:

I cant help it if I have a better understanding of what it will take for the industry to survive as a whole in the long run in every industry, the small companies have to innovate to compete, and the big companies refine and spread it to the masses, thats a standard buisness model, all you guys hate big corps, but I dont see any of you boycotting Seadoo, Im sure there in it for the progression


So basically you are saying big companies wait for small companies to make innovation and then ride away with it? now THAT doesn't sound like it's good for the sport. You should be more humble instead of bragging about "better understanding" of this sport's survival because there are different ways to look at what survival should be.

Seadoo is also a terrible example to use. In wakeskating you don't need to hire people with various types of engineering degrees. You need a lot of money to survive in those kinds of businesses.

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kento911
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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2005 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThomasNguyen, yes, thats what big corps do they take an innovative Idea and cash cow it, and that in and of itself doesn't nessicarily benifit the sport other than the fact that it forces the smaller companies to go back to the drawing board and do what they do best; innovate, the benifit mainly offered by big corps is the money and advertising the pump into the sport, but hey if you think there would be a protour, videos, websights and magazines (things that are nessicary to the "survival" of the sport by anyones "definition") with out the big companies pumping money into the riders videographers and the events(I.E. the street and toe jam contests) you go ahead an find new finaceers and Ill eat my shoe, and SeaDoo is an excellent example of a very large corporation making a product they hope will allow them to cash in on a young budding market, there biggest concern is makin gmoney, Im fine with that as long as it's aquality product, but they certainly arent"pushing the sport" and I dont see anybody pissin gin their cheerios, and as far as my "bragging" it's nothing of the sort, the facts are simple, that is how buisness works, and it's not a pardigm that is exclusive solely to the wakesports industry, if you have a better understanding and are going to call me out I suggest you step up your game.
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ThomasNguyen
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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2005 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said we need to get rid of big companies. I personally would be extremely happy if there was a big company similar to cassette or integrity in the sense that they have more money to test "riskier" designs and material concepts. Basically your first half of the argument is thrown completely out the window cause you're arguing with a statement I NEVER said.

Tell me, in your seadoo example what would be a small company that they could steal from? Is seadoo, yamaha, kawasaki and etc waiting for small companies to come out with new products to steal from, or are they funding engineers to improve there products?

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kento911
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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2005 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the first half of my arguement addresses this staement DIRECTLY re read it ,and form an opinon free of logical fallicy, here Ill even highlight the important part for you.
ThomasNguyen wrote:
So basically you are saying big companies wait for small companies to make innovation and then ride away with it? now THAT doesn't sound like it's good for the sport. You should be more humble instead of bragging about "better understanding" of this sport's survival because there are different ways to look at what survival should be.


and one thing I "NEVER said" was anything about SeaDoo stealing from ROC's, everybody is so anti corporate, but everybody wants a SeaDoo brand PWC with "cool" wakeskating accessories(that amount to a aluminum pole and plastic board racks), SeaDoo is the largest producer of PWC's making them the opitemy of a corporate entitity, and you exactly right there are no small guys, and yet all you "ROC's only" people see nothing wrong with that, very hypocritical.

if this debate is going to continue, with you presenting me with rebutts, that are obviously not well thought out and proceed to put words in my mouth then as far as Im concerned your opinion is valueless.

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kento911
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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2005 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on a side note I think the wakeboard/skate edition SeaDoo eliminated WakeDesigns market for PWC specific accessories rather effectively and swiftly, but that is a digression from my main point.

of course non sequitor doesn't seem to bother you, perhaps you could analogize me into Bush, Rumsfeld, or Cheney again Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2005 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morphine wrote:
I have to kinda clarify how you feel about it. You know there's a lot of guys on here who hate companies and shizzle and try to debase everything that everybody in the industry has worked for.
you mean to tell me that you, as a moderator who regularly polices the boards, havent yet realized that Josh has legit reasons for supporting certain companies and not others? wow.

Morphine wrote:
scott a, so let me get this straight, you're being a flick for no reason and telling me that my opinion is ridiculous which is basically what you said anything to me about my post in the first place.
actually, im being a "flick" because youre opinion really is rediculous. after the word "ridiculous" you lost me. again, perhaps you should spend more time formulating a coherent response.

Morphine wrote:
I'm just saying, the companies shouldn't matter as much as the sport, and I understand that those two correlate, but fighting about companies DEFINITELY isn't progressing anything.
companies exist for a reason...so we, as consumers, can have different products available at our disposal. some of us dont necessarily agree with the practices of certain companies while others just dont like the performance of a company's product. nonetheless its ridiculous that youve decided to not only question why people support a given company, but also to tell them outright where their loyalties should be.
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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2005 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I DONT think anyone is anti-corp, i think were just anti wake corp. and pro roc. Smash


p.s you mods should try doing your jobs and split this topic like 3 pgs ago Rolling Eyes
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kento911
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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2005 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PIRATE, if you feel the urge to help us mod, PM us, I know I persinally dont respomd to backseat modding unless somebody is going absolutely apeshit
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BillyOLDS
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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2005 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think this whole topic should be deleted but w/e, people have there own opinions about big time corp0s and small comps, but in the end we need em both to keep this sport going. i know i will give my money for the board and company i prefer, wether or not the make millions a year or not.





about seedoo, i think there sji's absolutely suck, everyone ive riden behind completly blew, including the triple crown, and the newer version. i own a honda and absolutely think it blows seedoo's products away.
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ThomasNguyen
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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2005 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

the first half of my arguement addresses this staement DIRECTLY re read it ,and form an opinon free of logical fallicy, here Ill even highlight the important part for you.
ThomasNguyen wrote:
So basically you are saying big companies wait for small companies to make innovation and then ride away with it? now THAT doesn't sound like it's good for the sport. You should be more humble instead of bragging about "better understanding" of this sport's survival because there are different ways to look at what survival should be.


The first half of your argument was about taking away big companies and that small companies could not support things such as contest and videos. Where in my statement did it say, "I want to get rid of big companies?"

The reason why I am bashing your seadoo example is because these two industries have seperate formats. Industries such as the personal watercraft one do not have small businesses, it's all big corporations. Wakeskating has small and big companies. I don't see in your example a small company being taken advantage by a big company type deal.

You are automatically grouping me with other people, such as ROC's. Did I say I was ROC? Didn't I say I would be very happy if there was a big company that worked like Cassette and Integrity? So how can I be a hypocritcal ROC?

Quote:

of course non sequitor doesn't seem to bother you, perhaps you could analogize me into Bush, Rumsfeld, or Cheney again


Read my post again. I was simply making an example that four people CAN ruin an entire government. I never said you were the equivalent of any of them.

Quote:

if this debate is going to continue, with you presenting me with rebutts, that are obviously not well thought out and proceed to put words in my mouth then as far as Im concerned your opinion is valueless.


I never put words in your mouth. Your the one putting words into my mouth. As a moderator who has to carefully read each post and decides which stays and goes, you are doing a very poor job in reading my statements. You automatically assumed that I was pro ROC and wanted to get completely rid of big companies.

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colorless
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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

headhuntermx4 wrote:
i think this whole topic should be deleted


I agree.

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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2005 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BOOO THIS TOPIC bbbbbbbbbbbbbooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bbbbbbbbooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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kento911
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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2005 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if your not anti big corp, and not for ROC, then what are you for nothing...well then your just arguing for arguements sake, as a moderator I dont have time for antagonistic memebers
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