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Something to think about.

 
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POPTART
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PostPosted: Sep 09, 2015 1:27 pm    Post subject: Something to think about. Reply with quote

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This will either be a good thread or a terrible one. It's up to us I guess.


* I will not guarantee that this has anything to do with wakeskating specifically. The topics may vary. Thus it will be kept in the Non-wakeskating Index.
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Starting off.

Wakeboarding/WakeIndustry Rant





I think its weird that the current state of wakeboarding is this.
Posting a picture of a trick that was not landed used to be taboo, now its ok/cool to post it. How many 3 shuvs off a kicker have been landed on a wakeskate now? Think any of their followers, or sponsors care about that? Nah Fuggin shredtown is the future man, its not lame they posted a trick that they didnt land. They are pushing the fuggin limits...EnergyDrink Contest Bruhhhh, 5 pannels Bruuhh, jorts Bruuuhhh. Its like they do everything wakeskaters did but ride a wakeskate and be poor, and get credit for it like its nothing anyone has ever seen.

--Actual conversation from the beginning of shredtown (maybe)--

-Yeah man wakeboarding is lame right now. So lets take everything about wakeskating and bring it to wakeboarding and get a chickity china the chinese chicken ton of credit and exposure and sponsors and...
--Yeah man thats a great idea, so you want to go wakeskating?
-No man everything about wakeskating , the tricks , style, contest format, all of it....but on a wakeboard
--like a 3 shuv?
-yeah but we wont have to land them, just post the photo
--sweet sounds a lot easier , maybe we can even get a wakeskater to quit and be our filmer!!

I think it almost sums up the weird place the entire wakesports industry is in right now. MC pulled out of the tour to bring wake back to x-games, prep for going public, and change their exposure. So what did they do? Held a real wake video contest and stack the entry's with MC riders. Look who won, an entire video of winching.

So why even have a boat company sponsor a wake event now? When the only boats selling are surf boats (SIDE RANT WHY THE FUGG DO A SURF BOAT NEED A FUGGIN TOWER???????) to people who could care less about getting out to winch a spot, or would know that pallet kicker hits (as hip as they are) do not necessarily show the riders versatility or skill set. (some might , some might not)
*Kanye West Steals Mic* " Daniel Grant had the best video in the contest

So you have a boat company pull out of supporting a contest built around the sport they (used to) design boats for, to sponsor a contest , viewed by wakesurfers, voted by facebookers, and the winner didnt even ride behind a boat. Laughable man

And people are wondering why the sport is seemingly loosing ground to the majority of "part time recreation enthusiast", why last years setups are still in board shops on sale at cost, and no-one knows what a wakeskate is still.(yes I know danny got his edit out, and that's super duper dope)

What is going to happen to the wakeboarders when the boat companies decide that taking a hand full of girls and BrianG to NC to shoot wakesurf pics of their new boats is more effective marketing than sponsoring video comps.

What's going to happen to the wake industry when they realize that for 99.9% of wakesurfers , Wakesurfing is just a temporary fad. And that their demographic of Die-Hard/Life-Time Skiers/Wakeboarders/Wakekaters have been left empty handed while they chased sales from two season wakesurfers.

Whats going to happen to the enthusiast who rely on these companies to continue to provide them with products and interest (pro rider based videos/demos/contest) when their sport is too last year for the companies to continue product development. Will they ever be smart enough to support rider driven/built brands what continue to stay true to their visions and innovate new products for the sports they love?



I guess we will just have to wait and see huh? Something to think about.


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Athletic Professionalism and the Future of its related industry.
Psychiatric drugs, School Shootings, and Other similar crimes.
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Add your own rants/ 2 cents / philosophical renderings / comments / arguments / and general "what not" to this thread
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freerider4
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PostPosted: Sep 09, 2015 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Its like they do everything wakeskaters did but ride a wakeskate and be poor, and get credit for it like its nothing anyone has ever seen."

I think you could just change that sentence to Its like they do everything skateboarders did but ride a skateboard and be poor, and get credit for it like its nothing anyone has ever seen.

Wakeskaters did not reinvent the wheel with what they are doing, so you probably should not act as if you or we are some divine being when it comes to originality.

If anything I would say shredtown is emulating snowboarding the most.
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PostPosted: Sep 09, 2015 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freerider4 wrote:
"Its like they do everything wakeskaters did but ride a wakeskate and be poor, and get credit for it like its nothing anyone has ever seen."

I think you could just change that sentence to Its like they do everything skateboarders did but ride a skateboard and be poor, and get credit for it like its nothing anyone has ever seen.

Wakeskaters did not reinvent the wheel with what they are doing, so you probably should not act as if you or we are some divine being when it comes to originality.

If anything I would say shredtown is emulating snowboarding the most.




Totally. Good point there on the originality as well.

The need for a shredtown was a fresh breath of air for the wakeboarding community, but I do feel like there are aspects of the whole thing that have been wasted energy to appeal to a very very niche group.

I mean wakeskating is small.

Winching wakeboarders is even smaller than that.

So why would you give that airtime, coverage? (as MC)
And if so why not give more support to a larger demographic?
There have to be more kiteboarders than wakeboarders that make and hit pallet kickers.

Even dwight schrute knew its 2x more expensive to get a new customer than to maintain a new one, and he didn't even go to business school like ryan.


The whole real wake thing was so weird.

"video contest" means something different to everyone I guess.

-bonecrusher thought it was a Video contest and he put out a cinematic w2w edit
-dowdy and clifford sent in HD video of a pro tour run
- DG killed it everywhere with true versatility on skate and straps

I guess if I was making wakeboard boats I would be concerned with the # of people who want to wakeboard behind a boat. I would be figuring out how to bring new life into the sport.



So if that is where wakeboarding is headed and the majority of the our support and infrastructure is directly related to the success of those brands and products allowing us to tag along what will happen to wakeskating? The people who are into this 100% with their sweat and blood have pockets that are no where near as deep. Can't expect individuals to pick up the whole slack.
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johnnyk
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PostPosted: Sep 10, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's start some beef, and let the industry catch on.

Watermonsters vs. Shredtown is the new Drake vs. Meek
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PostPosted: Sep 10, 2015 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnyk, wm vs shredtown? any info on that?

I just think there is a definitive line between those who are looking out for the sport and those who are looking out for the bottom line. Why do they have to be separate things? We don't want to be in the same boat as trick ski-ing in the future.

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PostPosted: Sep 10, 2015 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

POPTART,

no, no ... I was just being immature and making a joke. I've been thinking about starting a satirical TMZ-like tabloid website for action sports, and make up fake stories that the industry would find funny.

Sorry for thread crashing.

But seriously, 420 likes? could Shredtown try ANY harder??
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PostPosted: Sep 10, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with this.

freerider4 wrote:
If anything I would say shredtown is emulating snowboarding the most.


And also: Wakesurfing is selling boats right now.

Third: If the wakeskate "industry" disappeared tomorrow, would you still wakeskate?

Lastly/mostly: Will we ever see hard data on wakeskates sold per year by any companies? How sustainable is wakeskating and it's products? How many "pros" live comfortably off their sponsors?
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PostPosted: Sep 10, 2015 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnyk, WakeLine? (skateline for wake?) I love it.

Jake S, Right but the point was this , how many of them will be life time wakesurfers? How much innovation is there for the wakesurf sport its self, I'd say that even as new as it is we might not be far from everything possible on that board to have been done. If the only thing the boat company can offer in the new year is a different surf feature, how long before that is at its peak too. Same reason there are so many last years skates and wakeboard setups in shops right now. If there is nothing different about the new gear there is no need for upgrading. The only people who buy a board every year are trashing the thing during the season and have to have a new one. If that is the case than more than likely you cant afford to drop into new gear every season when you know you will destroy it. so you buy last years board at cost. Then your shop and the manufacturer cant afford to stay in business like that.
Wakesurf might be selling boats now but if it has a finite life span, what does that mean for the rest of the industry that provided a place for it in the first place.


I doubt that data is even tangible. On the positive note you have so many cable riders, here and overseas, to factor into that. I doubt the entire wakeskate industry has enough monetary value to even matter in comparison to any other water sport.

If the wakeskate industry did die tomorrow I think I would be fine. I figured out how to make my own cable park at home and between the boards I have squirreled away and my ability to produce my own skate I would be fine. But its about the other kids that have to buy a board from a shop or the internet. The kids that have to get a pull from a cable or a friends boat.


Ps I love that we have a dialogue back on this site! Keep it up people! Lets expand the conversation. No topic is off limits.
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PostPosted: Sep 11, 2015 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

POPTART wrote:
Jake S, Right but the point was this , how many of them will be life time wakesurfers? How much innovation is there for the wakesurf sport its self, I'd say that even as new as it is we might not be far from everything possible on that board to have been done.


I guess I don't see wake surfing as a "sport" or of the level of sportiness wakeskating or wake boarding is at. To me it's just an activity that takes a little bit of skill (to participate in), but its just like being behind the boat in a tube - but a lot more fun.

I have no idea where its all headed. I keep thinking some day wake boarding will be a little more cool - maybe come around - but they just keep kooking it as a whole. There's some cool stuff that comes out every once in a while I guess.

As far as industry data, I would just like to see some transparency in board sales and who's getting paid what. Just like professional sports. I think the numbers are interesting behind it. But, just as any board sport those numbers are hard to come by to the average participant/fan.
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PostPosted: Sep 11, 2015 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess your right on the tubing assessment. Never really thought of it that way.

The boat industry never came out with a tube specific boat ya know?
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PostPosted: Sep 11, 2015 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was having a discussion with a friend the other day. It was brought up that Winching helped kill the general popularity of Wakeskating. As it became more popular to do behind a winch, it became less popular to do behind a boat. This would cause a drop in popularity with the "Average" crowd.

Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Sep 11, 2015 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You think the turning around a big weighted boat all day was less of a deterrent than the majority of footage released being winch based?

I think it's probably harder than most people were willing to commit to. Hard to get the right water. Hard to get decent at. Hard to get picked up constantly. Hard to build a winch for most. There was probably a reason for everyone. I think the challenge is what I look forward to the most. There is really no limit to what I still can learn. What can still be done. Etc


Interesting thought.

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PostPosted: Sep 11, 2015 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. For the true riders, it shouldn't make a difference, but I can see my friends opinion making sense for the Family riders. I can see both sides, as I see the winches have made it more accessible to many.
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PostPosted: Sep 12, 2015 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This should be in the main
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PostPosted: Sep 14, 2015 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone else think that the relationship between these companies and their riders has changed?

I feel like the dynamic has changed. I just dont see the support that they used to get still out there.

Danny and Aaron both seemed to be getting boat support last season, then nothing much was heard about it afterward. I guess Reed's Supra relationship and Byerly and Natiuqe are pretty solidified. But was there not more of a relationship prior to energy drinks? It seems like that is the only thing these guys have anymore. Aside from the rider owned companies. Am I just not paying attention anymore?

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PostPosted: Sep 14, 2015 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No pro tour, very little print coverage, no major videos on the horizon. Sponsors seems down to the different board sponsors, Nike has a handful of guys, there's one or two riders on Red Bull, a few more on Monster. Only a couple of people seem to get support from Sea Doo and/or Yamaha. Grubb has Malibu, Byerly and BT have Nautique. It's gotta be pretty tough for the up and comer to get some support these days.
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PostPosted: Sep 14, 2015 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of that support comes down to how they carry themselves and can they sell product. (Captain obvious!)

One eye opener was the whole teva thing. here's a company who invested in that devise and conquer thing and had dudes like matt hooker, kyle walton and I also thought dieter rode for them. Those shoes were weird, which may have been the bigger down fall, but even so, those names couldn't sell that product.

I think back to nick's post, I think it was in a brian grubb, about how some riders choose to carry themselves to make wakeskating their lifestyle AND career, and others who chose not to do that, or don't think about their influence--whatever the case may be. Nick is a great example. Even without a tour, he was on all sorts of different trips, had a major social media influence, and will eventually have a bunch of rad videos that will stoke everyone (Including his sponsors) out. Danny hampson is another pretty great example--occasional social media stuff, hits up the wake events, and also had his documentary out...I think he's always been a rad professional.

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PostPosted: Sep 14, 2015 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

electricsnow, doesn't Grubb's sponsors pay for most of those trips tho?
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PostPosted: Sep 14, 2015 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure they do, and that's not really my point. I imagine nick's sponsors, at least at times, are kicking in for his trips. I remember some of his video edits from his trips to aus. had major o'neill branding at the beginning of them. I guess the point is how these guys carry themselves and their sponsors feel they have something to offer--right down to flying them to some far off place just to wakeskate.

And I won't edit my above post, but I was trying to say "I think it was in a brian grubb thread." Probably the one where people were complaining about the footage that ultimately made it on the national news? i think grant roberts had a quote on alliance saying only grubb could get wakeskating on the national news and people would still be hating.

grubb is rad!

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PostPosted: Sep 14, 2015 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

electricsnow, oh I agree with you 100%. I bet if you dig up that old thread you'd find a post form me pretty much echoing the exact sentiment. I'm glad Grubb has been able to keep most of his longterm sponsors.

My point here was it just seems like there isn't as much sponsor support going around at all, even to the established/professional guys right now. Nick used to be on Oakley, Aaron and Danny used to have DVS, Scott used to have Arnette. Seems that fewer and fewer companies are coming in to support riders/the sport in general. If the established guys who have had successful business relationships for a while aren't getting new sponsors, I can't imagine any up and comers finding a lucrative deal out there.

[edit] Found the thread http://www.wakeskating.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=582689
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