I want to hear some real opinions...

nick · Posted: Oct 29, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject:

This is hardly the first time anyone has observed the internet's effect on the validity of traditional media, so I'm not going to bother getting into that...

Before I get into my observations of what's going on here, I should say that there's nothing I'll type here that I haven't already said face-to-face to the staff of Alliance in their own offices, in the hopes of seeing improvement. Sometimes it seems like my words are taken in, and sometimes it seems like they aren't interested in what I have to say.

Over the last few years, my gripe with Alliance has been it's seeming lack of interest in documenting/presenting the real motions & moments of wakeskating, as they happen. For a publication that has called itself "The Pulse of Wakeskating" at one point or another, Alliance has consistently missed out on milestone moment after milestone moment of what's happening in wakeskating, missed out on countless opportunities to offer meaningful observations of what's happening in wakeskating, & maintained a careless attitude about the whole deal, not taking responsibility for their dereliction under the premise that they've still covered wakeskating.

And they have. As well as any wakeboarders/ex-wakeboarders who've been around a long time could cover it. When they started the magazine ten years ago, wakeskating probably had about 23 fans & it was pretty much just a little sideshow to wakeboarding, both still happening almost exclusively behind the boat. That's obviously not the wakeskating we know today, but these guys can hardly see it any differently. The guys at Alliance are good dudes, but they don't wakeskate. It's as simple as that. They run a photo of a wake-to-wake stalefish again & again because it's comfortable and familiar to them. The subtle intricacies that make wakeskating what it is, these little pieces of what we do which make the fire light up inside of us, these are lost on the people who charged themselves with being the pulse of wakeskating. As wakeskating moved forward & out, they didn't care to bring someone on board who would follow.

When Alliance terminated it's relationship with a journalist determined to portray wakeskating as petty & insubstantial, we all held our breath in the hopes that they would employ someone with passion for wakeskating, someone who would help grow a healthy foundation of what wakeskating can be in the future. We then saw this key position of the time filled by a self-serving, two-faced talentless weasel. Sure he could crank out 5 mediocre web edits a week & rode a zariel that one summer, but the massive let-down of this appointment was a major setback of what could've been accomplished had that position been filled by someone with a bit of passion/knowledge/creativity/professionalism/heart, or anything other than scum-fueled ambition...

Just as The Wakeskate Tour was born of wakeskating's collective dissatisfaction with the Toe Jam's inability to reflect the wants & needs of modern wakeskating, I believe that if a true wakeskater had been put in charge of running the Alliance Wakeskate website & had a hand in contributing quality wakeskate coverage to the magazine once Brooke Geery was gone, there's a chance that WeSubsist & WSM might not yet have been created.

Until there's someone at Alliance who is genuinely in touch with what's going on in wakeskating, the tricks, the styles, the motions, the characters, the mindset, & the passion; there's going to be a substantial dissatisfaction with the way their magazine/website is run, coming from those of us who are trying to stay in touch with wakeskating. The only thing worse than Alliance's neglect of the progress of wakeskating is their attitude towards the general wakeskating population. Consistent treatment of wakeskaters as though they aren't a part of Alliance's constituency is ridiculous, as is talking down to the people who are reading your magazine looking for stoke.

I find myself in a strange position in all of this, because I'm personally friends with everyone at Alliance except for Patrick Wieland, but I still have a lot to say outlining my discontent with the way publication is run. I've put my reputation with them on the line before, by speaking my mind, and so far (by continually asking me to write for them, running my photos, and not turning their heads away when they see me), I think they respect me for it & recognize that it's all from the heart.

And of course, the only reason I can even say any of this is because when I read The List in the last Alliance, it said that having an opinion was cool this year.

`

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

I really respect that you guys (especially the ones with a more significant voice/influence) are speaking up and saying your piece. Some of it's old news and doesnt feel like my place anymore, but i felt like people didn't speak up enough about having wakeskaters in charge of wakeskating content, or people were satisfied with what they had because it was alliance.

I don't think the commentary on full lengths is out of line or odd coming from the source. Patrick filmed lipsmack, jeff mckee rode in lipsmack, alliance "wakeskate" is sponsoring the remote vid, and there's also ave. (is the mastercraft documentary full length?)

Anyway, i think the argument is dated. Maybe some people aren't down for boat riding, but i feel like there's respect coupled with a push for more. One can cite thomas' early days, but he was also jumping pvc land gaps with a pwc (ca. 2000) and he later gave us the winch. Dave's totally right--going away from the wake helped wakeskating's identity evolve.

I'm a big believer in things happening for a reason, and the best things for wakeskating have come from those odd decisions. Wesubsist is radical, tad has done a lot of amazing video work (both versions of mtm and various web edits occupy many gigs of space on my tablet), and all of those guys are killing it with the wakeskate mag and the tour. I've been super enthused and inspired these past few years, thanks to that media, the progression on the wakeskate tour, AND noisia vision. I have to throw credit out for that one.

poopiepantz · Pop Shuvit Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 122 City: of Roses

I'm sure the boat companies that fund the mag and the 23 people who can afford a wakeboard boat will agree with the senitments of that post... Why does anyone care what a wakeboard magazine has to say about wakeskating? I REALLY appreciate that fact that some dedicated souls stepped up to provide us with the WSM.

Wakeboarding should be covered by people who care about wakeboarding. The same can be said about wakeskating.

I wonder if boat companies are putting some pressure on the magazines. All those advertising dollars...

It's pretty funny, when you follow the money.

btw, is Alliance jacking the comments on this thread and putting them on their own comments page?

Sagittorious · Posted: Oct 30, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject:

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

I think people probably care because of the audience they reach and how they present themselves as an authority in watersports. That's a heavy voice and people don't like to see other people front or overstep their bounds in terms of credibility (or so i feel).

fastgreens · Kickflip Joined: 29 Dec 2007 Posts: 3563 City: baytown

90% of the wakeboat owners that i know are posers Twisted Evil

. its just a big, bad ass boat to show off on the river that doesn't have any butter cuz its full of drunk dumbasses with outrageous boats, lol.

we frown on wakeboats in cedar bayou unless they are packed full of hotties Cool

Travis B · Frontside 180 Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 321 City: townie

I thought the whole point in wake boats was for getting wake babes? I must be missing something, I sure hope if I ever had a wake boat that it would be filled with wake babes and surfboards Laughing

Evan71 · Posted: Oct 30, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject:

Travis B, fat chicks too to make that shlt HUGE

poopiepantz · Pop Shuvit Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 122 City: of Roses

Esnow, I get it. It is a heavy voice. When there are only one or two voices in the room, they are bound to be heavy. Wakeskating now has it's own voice, so why should we care about what any wakeboard publication has to say about wakeskating. Wakeskating can no longer be treated as a "side project". Alliance Wakeboard Magazine came into existence because of dissatisfaction with the coverage being provided by waterskiiers at the other mag. The Alliance guys were the "cool guys that got it". Things have come full circle. I don't want to flip through endless pages of boat ads and wakeboard pics to get to a small handful of half-ass wakeskate content. Now they got the balls to talk shizzle about wakeskating at large? I know it wasn't aimed at me specifically, but I take it personally. Where is there an example of anyone not "respecting boat riding". That's lame. Wakeskating is heading in a direction that does not heavily involve the companies that advertise in the mags. Selling ads in the mags is how these guys feed their families. Being the "authority" in "watersports" is how they feed their egos. It seems now like they are less interested in covering what happens and more interested in dictating what happens. Wakeskating has clearly grown to a point where it can and does stand on it's own. We don't need to buy decks from wakeboard companies, we don't need to look at pictures in wakeboard magazines, and we don't need to ride behind wakeboard boats. As far as I'm concerned, any comment or opinion about wakeskating coming from a wakeboard publication is irrelevant and without credibility.

tad · 360 flip Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 5031

I've said my piece and moved on. Time to put that determination into our own magazine and put the team on my back. 2013, the year wakeskating breaks the 50 viewers mark!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDd5DPAGoCk

(NSFW)

Laughing

LakeLife · Posted: Oct 31, 2012 10:13 am Post subject:

poopiepantz · Pop Shuvit Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 122 City: of Roses

I showed this to a friend of mine today, and he thought it was cool, so we're up to 24! Beast Mode!!!

jake .R. · Posted: Oct 31, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject:

tad,Lol one of my all time favorites. Before i clicked on the link i was going to post this.

Now on a separate topic, why are people fighting over winch vs. wakeboard boat, or boat/ ski boat vs. pwc? People, don't forget that you are WATERSKIING. Just be happy for anyone who is able to enjoy these sports no matter what is towing them.

Here is something that i think not only wakeboarders need to remember, but wakeskaters also, your roots are in waterskiing, not just surfing and skateboarding, wakeskating is the product of this constantly evolving sport. Wakeskating is my life, so don't get me wrong here. But please stop taking things so seriously. My favorite title of any wakeskate movie was "Were Just Skiing" because it showed that concept.

Waterskiing got its name out there through professional show skiing, so i guess my question is, would it bug any of you to see wakeskating in a show skiing setting? Or would that give you stoke?

Through my show skiing I have been able to turn countless kids across various states onto wakeskating. Our ski team even uses wakeskating as a marketing tool to get new members. Opinions?

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

I don't think it's necessarily bad to wakeskate at a showskiing event. I drove an hour and a half, specifically to see grant and the other fox dudes in minocqua because they had a short demo with the minocqua bats.That was a fun day.

But i disagree with saying wakeskating is waterskiing. You can hold your roots close to your heart--that's cool and i pesonally dig the vintage aesthetic of old waterskiing stuff. But any uniqueness, individuality or originality is ignored when everything is lumped as waterskiing. A generalizing term could be watersports. But aside from skimming across the water with a towing device, there are characteristics, goals and maybe even attitudes that, by definition, distinguish each "watersport" separately. Wakeskating is always evolving, and maybe not everyone wants to call it wakeskating, but i'd never call it waterskiing. We are bindingless, and that's a huge start with distinctions, or so i feel...

And even with the roots idea, just because they're there doesn't mean that people identify with them, or even want to. It's like wakeboarding being called skiboarding. Those early riders wanted to separate their activity and identity as far from waterskiing as possible (or at least the boardsmen did, and not the three eventers and crossover skiiers). I guess that means a lot to me...

Just to add, i feel like you almost say that wakeskating wouldn't exist without waterskiing. That one annoys me as much as the wakeboarders on wakeworld saying that wakeskating wouldn't exist without wakeboarding.

And i didn't totally understand that old movie title "we're just skiing." i thought it was more of a joke, in that not everyone knows what wakeskating is.

Anyway, this is all conversational and not venom filled words. You asked for an opinion and this is mine with no hard feelings. Laughing

Edit: just a quick comment regarding leif's post: honestly, i think the importance some people see in wake mags like alliance is the audience. If it didn't matter, nick, silas, aaron, danny et al. probably wouldn't have contributed from one point or another. Nick and silas were current contributors and silas even wrote something about boats and wakeskating. So a divide in voices/messages/vision is where i could see frustration in regards to wake mags.

But i wouldn't go so far as to say that something a wakeboarding magazine says about wakeskating is not credible or important. I trust and respect shawn perry's voice and belief in wakeskating, even though transworld probably has the most boat coverage, or articles relating to boats that most of us will never own. And i like what they've done with devise and conquer, and even having the wake awards. But now i'm running this train off the tracks...

LakeLife · Posted: Nov 01, 2012 8:47 am Post subject:

jake .R. · Posted: Nov 01, 2012 9:03 am Post subject:

electricsnow, It is waterskiing though, and to say that we should ignore our roots is like saying that we should ignore skateboarding as an influence or inspiration?

poopiepantz · Pop Shuvit Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 122 City: of Roses

I get the reasons for the frustration. I've been frustrated with print coverage of wakeskating for ever. I just remove myself from their audience. That is the power we have as consumers. When you see a post or hear someone say "support wakeskating", or "support the WSM", that's what it means to me. As a consumer, I'll spend my money on a subscription to a mag that I actually like and want to look at. Riders and photographers have an option of where to submit content. Advertisers have a choice of where to spend their dollars. There is no longer a monopoly on print coverage of wakeskating by wakeboard publications. Industry pros can now speak up without fear of being black-balled and cut off from having any photos run (thus losing out on photo incentive $), and having no where else to go. It will take time for the WSM to grow, but it truly does a huge part in delivering ownership of wakeskating to wakeskaters. Decline of the wakeboard monopoly?... Shocked

miller · Backside 180 Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 2394 City: Regina

poopiepantz, a new movie "Decline of the wakeboard monopoly" would be great

poopiepantz · Pop Shuvit Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 122 City: of Roses

Miller, right?

Jake, I gotta disagree. This is an OLD debate. To me, it's like saying skateboarding is really just roller skating...

I for one was never interested in being pulled behind a boat until I could do it standing sideways on a board. I don't waterski. I don't "take a set". Never have. Personally, my wakeskate roots have nothing to do with waterskiing.

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

Jake, i think it's more about identity. I understand you think wakeskating is waterskiing, but i think a lot of people would disagree. And as much as you treasure those roots, a lot of people want nothing to do with them. Wakeboarding is closer to waterskiing and look at that activity's struggle with separating from that image and anything to do with it.

People identify with skating, they're inspired by it and pattern a lot off of it. Skateboarding is honored with those people. Waterskiing is the opposite of that. People aren't inspired and don't identify with it.

When thomas horrell was pushing wakeskating, he said something about wanting to get the skateboard kids on the water. Identity. He came from waterskiing, but he didn't make recruiting 3 eventers to wakeskating his priority. Hopefully that kind of illustrates where people were coming from. It doesn't matter that you show ski, but i would say the great majority have no interest in recognizing waterskiing in relation to wakeskating.

Leif, as radical as the wsm is, photographers and riders who are trying to make it arent going to stop submitting to those mags. Guaranteed. Those mags are still an opportunity and a platform--four people said something, not 20 pros who are disgusted with coverage and are starting a mutiny. (haha--look at that!)

I think of wesubsist and the idea of pushing that and being a part of a wakeskate specific site, and people still wanted their media on alliance. I think it's getting better from the web side, but i would bet that if any pro or wakeskate photographer were invited to do something for any big wake mag, they would not turn it down. Look at all of the involvement with devise and conquer (tad's been a part of that for two years). And roland has had a pretty consistent presence in alliance over the years. I might be taking this in a different direction and i'll just stop...but even though you won't buy the mags, the involvement with them won't stop and shift exclusively to the wsm. And i actually can't give wake mags that much power ove media and blackballing because, generally speaking, it seems tough to see more than maybe five or 10 good images of wakeskating, including ads. There's still very little coverage after all of the years and progress.