anyone read Vandalls article?

[88skisupreme]

excerpt from the comments

cactusjib Says:
August 16th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
I’ve always loved your riding but if this is any representation of who you are….. you’re kind of a dick.

[samcollett]

[GOLD!en]

This is by far the best article I have ever read from a wakeboarder. Vandall is on point and truly understands where wakeboarding needs to go if they are going to have a bright future.

samcollett, we are all the Vandalls of wakeskating.

[tad]

samcollett, Thanks for the follow up. (and the multiple call outs )

I also believe the right reasons vary, hence my comment (to you). Haha.

Trust me, it's impossible for my feelings to be hurt when discussing two people whom I've never met, nor have they impacted my life or time involved in wakeskating, cause like you said, they don't give a F about us or wakeskating.

[samcollett]

Well tad, I consider it unfortunate that you've never gotten the opportunity to meet or spend time with Erich. If you had, you would know that saying "they don't give a F about wakeskating" is inaccurate at its absolute best.

[tad]

samcollett, then what were you referring to when you said "f the establishment and everyone else" (outside of integrity/mutiny) ???

Sorry I just assumed we were talking about the establishment of wakeskating...

[samcollett]

tad, certainly not that everyone outside of Integrity is the "establishment" of wakeskating. You made two incorrected assumptions in that post. There are a few names that come to mind when I hear the phrase "bad for wakeskating." A previous "core" wakeboarding company was forced under the by the hand of one of those names. By my definition, that is the establishment of wake sports in general - those that couldn't give two shits about our sport or the rest of us. Personally, to me, methinks, to me, I neither give business nor waste time with those of that mentality.

I have pretty stout principles that I try very ardently to live by, and they extend through wakeskating to every other facet of my life. But hell, what do I know? Those same principles keep me from buying things from Wal Mart.

[PIRATE]

Not sure it's fair to have this conversation about doing it your own way... changing wakeskates ect... and not mentioning Kyle walton and the O.G homeless dudes (and jen).....

More importantly I assume that its only fair to say that Erich/Walton/Randy are fortunate to have wake... Not vice versa..... Not everyone gets to do what they do for a living.....

Also, last i checked Remote and Watermonsters were owned and ran by dudes that wakeskate... are good at wakeskating.... and Only make wakeskates..... Seems they should be mentioned in here as well.

[samcollett]

Also tad, for what it's worth and notwithstanding the affinity and respect I've got for electricsnow, I tend to disagree with her on the point that you so effectively found with your superior knowledge. Utility theory tells us that "rich" is a very ambiguous term. I think it's very naive to come into a sport such as wakeskating expecting to make money. That being said, people garner different amounts of utilities from different types of things with different values. That is the staple of free market economics. Some people get rich off of being well-known, or hierarchal status in whatever field is in question (wakeskating in this instance), etc. Thus, I believe that many people come to wakeskating to "get rich." Being that it is so small, it actually provides a great opportunity for some to gain status and recognition. Basically, it provides an opportunity for people to get wrapped up in a bunch of bulljive, for lack of a better word. There are those of us (yourself included, I believe) that think that mentality is very stupid. Regardless, it is undoubtedly present.

[GOLD!en]

samcollett, you assume a lot when you speak of large "core" wakeboarding companies or any company in our industry for that matter. Have you personally had the chance to sit down with the owners of larger companies and have one-on-one chats with them, particularly about wakeskating? Most people can answer no to that question. Some, maybe not all, owners of these so-called companies DO give two shits about wakeskating and want wakeskating to succeed to its fullest potential. Most people just assume that since it is such a large BUSINESS, it forgets about little things like wakeskating and even wakeboarding. The BUSINESS needs to make some sort of profit to continue doing what it does, even if some people see that as wrong.

[GOLD!en]

By the way, thoroughly enjoyed your idea on utility theory in wakeskating

[samcollett]

GOLD!en, can't tell if sarcasm.

To answer your question, yes, I have. Since we keep using the word assume, I'll just go ahead and continue the trend. You assume that I implied all big wakeboard companies are bad, which I didn't. You are very right though. There are a few of those big guns that I know care very much about the success of wakeskating. There are also a few that do not. My mentality towards wakeskating is not of the same as Schmaltz and Vandall. Mine is much more apathetic. However, as I said earlier, I think the different mentality is cool.

[GOLD!en]

No sarcasm here! Apologies for assuming so much. I forgot that when I assume, I make an ASS out of U and ME. If only companies could put their hearts and souls into their products and stand behind them 150%. Oh wait, people like Remote and WM already do...

[tad]

[samcollett]

[samcollett]

tad, Woah girl. I think you need to back pedal a bit. I'm fairly certain that the anti-establishment movement in any sect of society is just anti-usurpation of power. Anti-those who lie, cheat, and steal. Anti-taking advantage of the little core guy. The only thing you're doing here is taking little tidbits of things I say and trying to argue against them for the sake of argument. I'm not a spokesman for Erich, Randall, or anyone else. I'm a spokesman for myself. You asked my opinion and you got it. If that rubs you the wrong way and you're upset because I didn't mention water monsters, remote, or whomever, then get over it. I give my love and respect to all of those little companies equally, because to me, that's what is good for wakeskating. The original question was who did we think the Vandall of wakeskating is. To me, methinks it is Erich. There are lots of wakeboarders and companies that are really good for wakeboarding other than Randall Harris, just like there are a lot of wakeskate companies and wakeskaters that are good for wakeskating other than Erich.

[electricsnow]

samcollett, to be fair about picking things apart, you took one sentence I posted and turned it into a paragraph of reasoning that I think was out of context from my original comment. It's cool, we all have opinions, you want to defend yourself and you kind of had to dig for that one. My comment was kind of off the cuff and was in response to randy talking about how his heroes had to get real jobs because they couldn't earn a living from wakeboarding. (it was absolutely in regards to financials, and not other intangible riches that you're referring to.)

Yeah, you're going to get people who get into wakeskating to try and make a name--you will find that anywhere. And you know, I guess people have to look out for themselves--part of it is, we're all replaceable. Somebody else out there can represent rockstar energy drink, or axis boats when randy's done. Obviously the few things we have that are original to us is our style and our attitude--other character traits we bring to the table a part from simply doing our job.

But on the other hand, I think you're overestimating the value of wakeskating in that regard. Generally speaking, there's still not a lot of wakeskating coverage in standard wake mags. I just don't think there's a whole lot out there for people to really make a name off of or gain notoriety, unless you straight up rip. I remember people complaining about how people who've ridden forever basically make it hard for new people to come up because of occupied sponsorships. But again, we could be thinking of different rewards like facebook groupies vs. making your way up the ladder in the wakeskate world.

To finish on my sentence from before, what i see in wakeskating, is even if people "want to be somebody", a whole lot of people are down to work towards a collective goal that's healthy for wakeskating. Some people are really fortunate to make a living off of wakeskating, but I think those same people are really working to promote wakeskating and help it grow. They're not just riding in their backyards, though when they do sometimes we're really lucky and we get a video from it. But there are other people--a lot of people--who still try to do great things for wakeskating, like make videos or whatever, because they love to do it and they're never going to get anything financial back from it. To me, that's why wakeskating and a lot of people in it aren't really a "vandall" in the way that he portrayed himself. At least for the people who are on the forefront and are pushing for new things, I don't get the impression that any of them are wondering if this is all worth it, and if they care any more, etc. regardless of what they may or may not be getting back from it.

I think I'll leave it there because I took it all over the place anyway. Nobody is really going to see eye to eye anyway, and I think what matters more is what we're doing and how we act, as opposed to what we think or what we say we're going to do. It's the action that's getting amazing things done in wakeskating right now, and there's little financial reward for that work. But they do it anyway!

[geissap]

Wait more importantly...so electricsnow is a chick?

[Mario C.]

wakeboarding is much more intense than most all the tricks done on wakeskates.. now add 6+ mph & 90+ feet of rope into the madness and you have the vandall. dood is sick.

[PIRATE]