A-Semmetrical Skates

Slyder · Posted: Feb 14, 2004 10:17 am Post subject: A-Semmetrical Skates

What's the deal with a-symmetrical skates, what does their shape do?

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

The extra width gives you a little bit more surface area to work with when you're trying nose and tail slides, but it also helps you out with your switch ollies. This was actually discussed in a different thread....the "my cassette fell apart in two days" thread, so you may want to look there because there's a bit more detail...

Catalyst · Backside 180 Joined: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 736 City: Kelowna

its also a marketing ploy

Slyder · Posted: Feb 14, 2004 7:33 pm Post subject:

are you just saying that because you obviously like hyperlite?

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

That's a good question slyder, I don't know what his problem is.

Catalyst, explain yourself. You've been complaining about a number of things without a decent rebuttal, so here's your chance to redeem yourself. Question: why do you think an asymmetrical deck is a marketing ploy?

Catalyst · Backside 180 Joined: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 736 City: Kelowna

i think assemetrical decks are a marketing ploy cause half the kids out there dont need em. I do agree they make sense but when you buy equipment ahead of your time its not always gonna help you. Assemetrical wakeboards were designed to help people ride switch, assemetrical wakeskates were designed for noselides and tailslides. When someone goes to buy a product that has no idea what they wont most people and it is sad to say want the best there is. In skate sense they're gonna want the best one especialy as they only cost around 200 bucks. so they buy the cassette assymetrical in whatever size they need. The problem with this is that someone who doesnt know what there doing is gonna have a harder time using a peice of equipment not ment for them but hey it must be the proper way to one to have bought cause its the new one thats the best and everyone wants one. an assemetrical wakeskate is ment for rails, how is a board made for rails gonna help them in any other aspect especialy if there just learning (that was my basic argument towards the assymetrical phenom) Ok second point, when i say marketing ploy you take it the wrong way. it is a marketing ploy, when you put a cool sounding word infront of something or a word that relates to something that people recognize theyll spend more time looking at it. IE the atkins diet, throw the word atkins firendly infront of anything and it will sell like hotcakes. KFC jumped on the atkins wagon but what people didnt realize that just cause its low in carbes doesnt mean that its not extremely high in fat. People still went and bought it though. so if u understand my rambling you realize that if u put anyword that sounds good infront of something the average consumer will normally buy it. I know there is a big difference between the atkins diet and and assymetrical wakeskate but i hope your starting to catch my drift. Also it obviously has us talking about it so i guess there markiting plan worked. When people talk about product in depth thats the first sign of interest. obviously its got our attention otherwise you wouldnt be reading my rambling. I hope this makes sense and i hope electricsnow, you like my statment or comment or what not cause i respect most of your posts as there usually insightful. I hope mine was. OhSlyder, i dont love hyperlite my name is catalyst on this forum as it relates to the mini film projects we do that go under the name of catalyst films. k i cant ramble anymore if u disagree post your reasons and we'll go into more depth. also i hope you dont think all my posts are negative cause its usually the first thing that pops into my head i right.

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

Well Catalyst, I certainly respect the fact that you defending your position. Here's mine: I don't believe the asym. decks are "marketing ploys." I will admit that the 4trac design might be ahead of a few people, but there are more and more people that are using it to its full potential (a guy I always have to use is Aron gore with his nose grinds and bluntslides--so hot), and there are definitely people that aspire to reach that level. I agree that some kids want the top decks to ride, but you have that in any sport, regardless of how practical it really is for their riding style. But I've read plenty examples of people asking for advice on what wakeskate to buy for a beginner and many have chosen flat decks because they don't know if they'll like wakeskating and they may waste an extra 100.00 for something that ultimately becomes a toy for them. But it is their choice as to whether or not they want an appropriate deck vs. some sort of flashy accessory that is beyond their riding abilities.

Oh yeah, I guess one thing to mention is the prices: if someone is looking for a concave (we'll use cassette as the example), 4 tracs are only 20.00 more than a standard concave, one of which is a true twin. So realistically, there's a good chance that someone is going to be buying an asym. deck and it's not necessarily about buying the best deck.

One thing to remember is that the 4tracs aren't the only decks that are asym.--there are aboot (Isn't that how canadians say it? I keed, I keed...) three others in the cassette line that aren't equiped with the extra nose fin options, but still have the extra surface area for the stability and surface area to help out with switch riding (which is one of the primary reasons for having a larger nose). I've said this before--the larger nose is borrowed skate technology, which has been proven over time, otherwise they wouldn't continue to make decks like that. Skate decks have noses with a slightly steeper kick and the nose is also longer and a bit wider to aid with switch/fakie tricks. From personal experience, the larger, steeper nose does help with nollies/fakie ollies/ fakie shoves, etc. But in the end, it is up to the rider and what they think is comfortable. Aaron and thomas like asym. decks, but drew is sticking to the sym. deck.

(Ahem...now might be a good time to get a bite to eat, or maybe take a nap and leave the rest for a rainy day..or when you're bored--you're about half way there! Yes! There is a point...)

Also, I dont' think that people will be hindered by purchasing a 4trac. Most people will ride it forward and they'll smile....the design isn't so extreme that people would be floundering if they purchased this deck as a beginner because they aren't just for rails. One thing they might need to figure out is that they don't need to ride with all four fins...but you know, let them fall and have fun. I think that the nice bit about the asym. decks is that the shape is there if they need it, if not, it's perfectly fine to ride forward and forward only. I think it's good to have that choice and it's basically a deck that someone could grow into.

Lastly, in this industry, i think "asymmetrical" is necessary to put in front of "the name". If people don't skate, they aren't even going to notice that the nose is larger, and they may not even know what it's for (many have pointed out that not all wakeskaters come from a skate background). Plus, wakeskating is just young and people may not understand the technology right away--but that doesn't mean that it's not applicable and useful in this industry. Also, asymmetrical boards have different purposes in different sports. In wakeboarding, the theory is that it will help your riding through tracking. In snowboarding, it's supposed to help your board more in powder by sinking the tail and pushing the nose up--and we've already talked about skateboarding. Errrr, that's probably a moot point...whatever, I still think it's interesting.

But I do see what you're saying in your post, and that KFC commercial was quite disturbing...

(yawn, scratch, breathe, breathe, cough, sneeze...onomatopoeia)

Catalyst · Backside 180 Joined: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 736 City: Kelowna

haha yeah tha kfc comercial is disturbing..."Hey jim you look good what have you been doing?" ..... "uhh eating chicken" haha now that thats out of the way ur points are all legit but i think you also have to consider i never said they were a bad idea, there like the gate they have there time and place and eventually everyone may need one who knows. But you have to take it what it is a marketing ploy isnt always a gimmik. ok course its a marketing ploy by casette, they wouldnt have realesed it to the public if they didnt think the could boost some sales. Marketing ploys arent a bad thing i guess that last rambeling i made didnt make to much sense to the point i was trying to make (hha this one might not either). But the term marketing ploy shouldnt be taken with so much offense. Any ingeniouse or stupid idea is gonna be marketed a certain (thus the ploy). Its all buisness. But because cassettes doing i have way more respect for them as they have been poneering this shizzle since day one.

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

Yeah, I basically took offense to it because I don't think it's simply a money making ploy. Yes, every company needs money to succeed and to create, but cassette's technology is far beyond making money. I do believe it's more sincere and it's about progressing designs with true technology and not having the latest and greatest technology to claim and then jumping right to something else, claiming it's again "the latest and greatest thing"--it's a vicious cycle. But the funny thing is that if you don't come up with something new, people complain about it...it's weird. Anyway I've discussed my feelings on this before and I don't want it to become tiresome, so I'll leave it at that. You may beg to differ and I shall do the same....

Slyder · Posted: Feb 15, 2004 9:21 am Post subject:

Catalyst, I get what you're saying now, makes sense to me. The a-symmetrical skates are only for certain people, but these new kids comming out want to get the best before they can ride the best. The reason cassette decided to produce them rather than just a few at a time for the pros (i think that was something you were talking about, forgive me if it's not.) is that things are cheaper to produce in bulk. Yes, this all pretty much does revolve around money, and the fancy name may make kids think, "Hey, that sounds really cool." It brings us to your Atkins point. But I think that people in the know can see past the marketing and buy a skate for what it is truly worth, Just as people who know how to diet know that Atkins might not be the proper one for them. (I can't believe we are talking about Atkins) That is a good point electricsnow brought up though about how skateboards are also a-symmetrical, most people dont realize it. (and isnt wakeskating a cross between wakeboard technology and skateboard technology?) Overall I kind of agree with both of you. (or something) Cassette is a company that needs to make money in order to work, if they have a good idea they are going to go with it. If it helps progress the sport AND make money, why not eh? (more canadian for ya)

greg van wagnen · Posted: Feb 15, 2004 12:03 pm Post subject:

i dont get how an a-semmetrical board will be good for a beginer at all, i would say it would hinder (real big word for me Laughing

)there riding. i know when i first learned a shovit i would like do a wake jump n then go in the flats n do a shovit n if i stuck it id go do something else n do a shovit later. so if i under stand the a-semmetrical board correctly you are suposed to ride it only one way forward most of the time, right? for me for a long time if i stuck two shovits in a row it was like o sh*t that was a good set. im not sure where im going with this becuase i dont see the a-semmetrical boards as bad but i just dont understand how they will help wakeskating that much. i know how it works for skateboarding and snowboarding but i dont see what it does for wakeskating. i guess thats what this post is for, how does it really help my wakeskating? (my enter key isnt working for some reason but this is a new paragraph or statement or somethin) i also see this as how the concave was when it came out. at first nobody knew if it was real or just a gimic and it has been proven as a good design, so maybe people need to just get on an a-semmetrical to understand it.

Catalyst · Backside 180 Joined: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 736 City: Kelowna

yup all points here make sense, just dont get the idea i hate cassette or anythingn i was just making a quick comment that seemed to make sense and then i was obliged to finish it. I think cassette is helping push design and as we all now equpment is one step towards progression

stompin9s · Posted: Feb 15, 2004 2:41 pm Post subject:

yes greg, i agree with u...i have a question about riding an asym. deck backwards...is it that much different? i can do shuvits but they arent 100% so if i did one i wouldnt want to feel like i would HAVE to land my next one to get my board back to regular. so i guess what im asking is how does an asym deck ride when it is facing the wrong way but the rider is riding forward(does that make sense?)

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

These boards are still twins, meaning that they can still be ridden in either direction with a fair bit of ease (as opposed to a surf style wakeboard, or even an old school skateboard without a nose). There isn't a huge difference between the nose and the tail...maybe an inch, but that inch is there to give you some extra surface area when you're riding switch and obviously, for nose/tail slides, blunts, etc. Some may even want to ride these decks backwards--On my skateboard, I actually like to switch it around because I like a steeper kick. Anyway, the decks aren't so different that it would hinder someone's riding. I'm actually surprised this many people dont' understand the design...but yeah, I would say people need to either ride it to get it, or they need to do their own research to really understand it. Greg, if it makes it any easier for you, if you know how a skateboard works and why it's shaped like it is, the same principles apply for a wakeskate. It sounds like you're turning it into something mental--do you worry on a skateboard when you do a shoveit and the nose becomes the tail? It's the same thing...

I've said this before, but it's all about rider preference. If asymmetrical designs didn't work, skateboards would not have this design and cassette would not have the majority of their line in this shape ( five of six concaves, I believe). I personally think that cassette decided to use this design because most of them have a skate background, but whatever. Anyway....uhh, got any gum?

In my opinion, the asymmetrical boards are built to cater to a different style of riding. More people are getting better at wakeskating, more people are trying to noseslide, and more people are getting into switch tricks (I can think of different people on this MB that fall into these categories). With that said, I do feel like this board is built to cater to that progression. It's like skateboarding; shapes have changed dramatically over time and the shapes boiled down to what tricks were being done. In the very beginning when it was all about surf stylie, sans ollies type of riding, there weren't even any kicktails. When people weren't really riding backwards, there weren't any noses; when noseslides/tailslides/blunts came into play, a larger nose was needed, which resulted in the trucks being pushed back (you can find a few boards that have two options for the front trucks so you could have a larger or smaller nose), and you also started to get some kicks in the nose. So, board shapes aren't going to be stagnant and standard--the riding and ideas that skaters have will definitely play into future shapes. Boards really have come a long way...

So, does that make sense? Why do you guys make me type so damn much... Very Happy

Ok, here's an example of the holes in the nose to accomodate various truck options--if you look closely (sorry, the picture isn't that great) you can see eight holes in the nose, which allowed you to moves the trucks forward or backward.

Dave Barousse · Faceplant Joined: 10 Sep 2003 Posts: 5

I guess I never thought twice about it because I come from a skateboard background and thought that what Cassette was doing with their shapes just made sense. I must admit that when I skate or wakeskate on my 4-Trac, sometimes it plays games with me in my head when I am riding my board the wrong way. Other times I will ride a whole set with my board the wrong way and not even realize it until I just so happen to look down (I put a sticker on the "front").

Cassette didn't make the A-sym shape as a marketing ploy, they made it because they are doing things that most of us don't even understand yet. If you are a beginner or not into sliding yet, then get the regular concave or a flat deck. The A-sym shape isn't a necessity, it is just a better tool for the job.

greg van wagnen,
I see your point, but it may actually make you a better rider to know that you "have" to get your board back around. That is, if you look at it that way. I can honestly say that it has made me a more consistent rider because I let it get to my head when my board is backwards.

electricsnow,
I used to do that to all of decks back in the day before it was standard. I feel kind of innovative now...ha..yeah right!

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

Ha! Before I got my first "real" skateboard, i had a variflex and I used to watch this show called "skate TV," and Lance Mountain had this "do it yourself" section. Anyway, one of his tips was drilling those extra holes to move your trucks back. I did that too but the shape was old school stylie, so it really didn't make a difference--I didn't have any kick on the nose and it was still ridiculously small. Ahh, the good ol' days...

By the way, I like how you said that cassette "...made it because they are into doing things that most of us don't even understand yet." That sounds about right...

Subvert · Ollie Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Posts: 77 City: Atlanta

I just want to say:

"Most well thought and well spoken thread I've ever read on a forum!"

Cheers (to sound British).

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10756 City: Jefferton

My sister brought this back from england (although don't say it to my mom, she might take offense to it--ha!): "Cheers big ears!" (with an accent of course)

Would anyone care for some fish-n-chips, or perhaps some spotted richard (from "spotted dick" fame)? Seriously though, I'm all up in my golden syrup...it's like maple syrup, but without the maple, so it's really just pure sugar that's all runny and dope...YUM!!

Kris · Posted: Feb 16, 2004 1:39 am Post subject:

We changed spotted richard back to spotted dick.
Golden syrup is lush
I fancy some good Fish-n-Chips with a nice Chip Buttie. Or maybe a toad in the hole.

Rob · Posted: Feb 16, 2004 10:29 am Post subject: