What's the Current State of Bi-Level Decks?

GnarShredd · Backside 180 Joined: 24 Jan 2009 Posts: 1529 City: Seattle

I haven't really been paying attention to them much but REALLY loved my Cassette back in the day for the few weeks it lasted. Shortly after I got a Devotid, which also broke fairly quickly.

Has anyone out there made a durable bi-level that can survive regular riding/botched kickflips?

POPTART · 360 flip Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 7621

have you tried the boomstick?

it looks like a composite cassette

I also saw some dudes at wakenation remove the trucks off of the older ronix bi level. Botled the topdeck directly to the bottom deck. Gave it a lower profile.

there is always the sst

I would like to ride one of those Project bilevels
http://projectwakeskates.webstorelw.com.br/products/bi-level-41

side note these project guys are killing it! their lemonscraft has to be the coolest one out there, and their graphics are super cool too

girlsafteryou · Pop Shuvit Joined: 16 Jun 2009 Posts: 102 City: Seattle

I hope someone like Remote, tries Bi levels again, Ronix seriously has the most tech construction I have ever seen. It took me five months of riding daily to break my first top deck. I also have one of their hover boards and the construction is next level. Bi levels are really fun for boat riding, and I learned a lot of tricks when I was riding them. The SST is a great board, I have one still, but it doesn't feel like a bi level at all to me.

The one real problem was that nobody made extra top decks or sold pieces separately. To me they should be cheaper than Concaves, If I ever make enough money to play around with them, I would love to. I know it's probably a nightmare, but such a fun board.

Basically with the exception of Ronix, nobody has done it right yet.

nick · Posted: Jul 09, 2013 11:22 pm Post subject:

I can't wait for the day that no one rides bi-levels anymore.

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daniel · Back Big Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 3669 City: Duncan

nick, why is that?

nick · Posted: Jul 09, 2013 11:40 pm Post subject:

daniel, Every wakeskater that I know that rides a bi-level simply looks way better on a normal concave deck. Reed Hansen, Grant Roberts, Aaron Reed, Danny Hampson...etc. I find myself enjoying watching their riding much more on the now-rare occasions I see them riding a basic concave wakeskate. Bi-levels are bulky & heavy, and while I fully understand that there is a well-defined spectrum of preference gauging from light/maneuverable decks to heavy/bulky decks, I also realize that it's almost impossible to achieve the graceful movements that make wakeskating beautiful to me, with a 17lb double-decker...

I've had plenty of conversations with Reed Hansen about it, and I'm certainly not going to tell anyone that they should wakeskate the way I want them to... I'm just saying that I'll personally be a little stoked on the inside when that chapter in wakeskating comes to a close.

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senza wake · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jun 2011 Posts: 597 City: SLC

i have to say that this is about how i feel as well. really the bi-level that doesnt make any sense is the Onset. i mean matt manzari kills it on the wskate, makes it look amazing, just pick up a thick concave deck cuz thats all the Onset now is. it just looks like a bi-level. those silly plastic fillings.
funny enough i feel like Jake R for me is the most solid looking rider ive seen on a bi-level. itll be interesting to see where bi-levels will end up. i have many thoughts about this subject, as to why theyre still around and what not. but this is enough for now...

88skisupreme · Backside 180 Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 1342 City: ATX

I always thought they were kind of a fad.

senza wake · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jun 2011 Posts: 597 City: SLC

I don't think theyre a fad, I mean Thomas horrell designed them. I remember when they came out, it was rad. I definitely think they have had a huge place in wakeskating. I just think that the new decks being made have used what they brought to the table. wider, thicker, heavier decks. and as far as the tails snapping down when ollieing, I don't think any of the new bi-levels even do that any more. cuz theyre either compression molded or composite and have very little flex. one thing I think they do best is they look complicated so people who are new may be attracted to them thinking that there is a reason the boomstick costs over 400 dollars because it looks different than other decks. so it must be better...
again tho, some people do love them and absolutely kill it on them.

daniel · Back Big Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 3669 City: Duncan

nick, I completely agree on how they look when ridden, but I still like riding one from time to time. they are fun for a little while.

girlsafteryou · Pop Shuvit Joined: 16 Jun 2009 Posts: 102 City: Seattle

100% FUN. and The Onset is just a good board, it looks funky, but it rides great.

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10735 City: Jefferton

Man, i have to politely disagree. First, i think aaron reed put out one of his best, if not the best, video sections on a bi level (volume issue 2--flicked everything, bad to the bone-ness dock hits and whatever else). Even with "the other reed"-- i think that dude kills it on a bi. He flicked his kickflips, and his frontside heel on his cassette bi level is burned into my brain. Volume issue 4--what a baus.

However, i do agree that the board isn't for everyone and some people just don't look that great on them.

As for weight, maybe it's more about distribution. I can pick up a wm or a remote, and they weigh as much as my cassette bi level. That's why the weight issue amazes me. Concave weight has increased so much over the past decade, it's insane. I'm actually completely impressed dudes ride those concaves like they do.

I will add that reeds deck might have gotten heavier and i don't know anything about sst weight. I can just say that my cassette is no more of a tank than most of today's concaves.

I'm glad senza wake pointed out the design contributions of the bi-level. He is very much right about that. Add in that photo of aaron reed boosting insideout behind the roller of that seadoo and that set the world on fire, both from a rider perspective (from hating and trying to play it down, to feeding the imagination and build up of the release of the cassette bi-level). Plus it had schmaltz talking about other ways he was going to try to make a board more snappy (leaf springs, etc etc). So it inspired on many levels--there's no denying that.

I personally love the board and could easily go back to it (so long as it's a cassette). Cassettes snapped, and i think every other board probably became overbuilt. The feasibility seems challenging, and i do think a number of attempts got it all wrong. I once demoed a model and it was so stiff it felt pointless. Just a two leveled deck without the snap and benefit the bi was supposed to have. But that's just me, yo.

daniel · Back Big Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 3669 City: Duncan

electricsnow, I get what you are saying with that, I did used to love watching horrell and a reed shred the bi level. also also enjoyed watching justin forrest kill it on that verge, or oury on the devotid. for some reason watching the ronix just looks like a huge boat of a board, just like when the byerly team were on those bi levels. just isnt the same.

Frye · Guest Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 3335

electricsnow, those video parts were all amazing in their own time. If I watch one of those parts side by side with one of today's pros the dated footage looks pretty kooky. There's nothing wrong with that, but at this point wakeskating has progressed past that

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10735 City: Jefferton

Kooky in what way? I recognize people are doing way more than stock kickflips and reentry shuvs, and lip tricks. and i see less footage is being filmed on a lake, but i don't think the actual riding style is outdated.

canalskater · Taco Bell Fa'Lyfe Joined: 22 May 2005 Posts: 648

I too, am looking forward to the day when bi-levels are a thing of the past. There is no functional advantage to riding one and its just one more thing making it harder for people to understand wakeskating. That, and lock in tricks look ridiculous on them(the few that I've seen) and it seems like the only guys still riding them, ride boat a lot, where I'm sure the added weight and steep concave help out. As for increased pop, that's bs. The physics behind an ollie on a wakeskate have nothing to do with snapping or springing out of the water. You make a depression in the water with your tail, and boost out of it. The deeper you dig the higher you pop.

canalskater · Taco Bell Fa'Lyfe Joined: 22 May 2005 Posts: 648

girlsafteryou, the onset is a good board? I would have to say out of all the boards I've ridden, that was the worst. The rocker, the weight, the concave, every aspect of that board was awful.

SEAMAN · Frontside 180 Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 388 City: Atlanta

snappy...don't start that again...

Let's here it for the bi-level and the "fulcrum" effect.

I'm ok talking out the benefits of a bi-level as long as correct physics is understood and discussed.

Sorry, its been SOOOO long, I want to start a fight!

SEAMAN · Frontside 180 Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 388 City: Atlanta

Canalskater,
Finally someone else who understands simple physics...

damn it I love the three dots...

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10735 City: Jefferton

Nobody on here praised the fulcrum effect or anything of the sort. What i can say is that image of reed fed into the imagination of every rider who was into cassette and wanted to know what the hell a bi level would look like and how it rode. And that reaction inspired others to try and keep up or push in their own ways. Simple as that.

Seaman, we've had a million talks and i know you hate the design. While my riding is probably considered kooky by today's standards, i could feel equally at home on either deck...i just like the way that board felt under my feet. A bi level does complicate wakeskate design when everyone seems to prefer simplicity. But on an older episode of iconoclasts, tony hawk was explaining to john favaru (sp) how a board flexes when you ollie. In that, the bi-level made sense to me. What can i say.