the new standard or personal preference

[PIRATE]

dave said i should start a new discusion about this so i will.

let me start by saying i know that this whole bi-level thing is played out on here but im still going to start a new one. what do you guys think about this:

do you think that the bi level is going to be just personal preferance or do you think that its going to be so good that it will give the people who ride them a advantage over reg.... deck, (do you think that you'll be able to land things on a bilevel that you wont be able to do on a regular deck)

If so then obviously this is going to be the "NEW WAKESKATES" if these are the future of wakeskating do you think that thomas should pattent it, thus forcing us all to ride cassettes.


before you respond let the record show that i ride a integ and i will continue to ride a integrity because THEY ARE THE BEST

[nick]

I think the bi-level design is too complicated and will be worn out in a few years. The bi-level will be the preferred board of a few skaters out there, but I believe that real wakeskate innovation will continue in single deck wakeskates. This fad will die out eventually and the bi-level will be memorabilia from the early years of wakeskate design... My 2¢

[RUSSIAN]

I refuse to pay $300 for a wood board, It's that simple. And I think that will be the factor that keeps the board from becoming the standard. It's similer to the honeycomb/balsa/dna core, even if it were that much better(which it's not) the price is what keeps it from becoming the standard.

IMHO there is room in this industry for different types of boards, Especially for different situations(rails and such) so their may never be a standard shape like skateboarding has. And thats probably a good thing

[rhodester]

i agree that the board is too complicated but it still comes down to personal preference, i know people who prefer a flat deck over concave. It definately wont be the same for everyone though

[Matt_French]

RUSSIAN, Some would say that the bi-level is still in its early ages of development. And that as it moves further into its product life cycle, costs and manufacturing prices will decrease, causing price to decrease. Especially if other companies start coming out with their own take on the bi-level.

I think this is a really good topic because its an aspect of bi-levels that no one has really looked deeply into. Regardless of price, ceteris paribus, i think that the bi-level might give an advantage for certain tricks, and it might take away from others. Personally i think the bi-level is a step closer to the perfect design...but it is not there yet. There are still issues that need to be dealt with before the bi-level will rule all single-level decks obsolete. That's what is so rad about wakeskating...it's still in such early stages of its development as a sport. This discussion is the equivalent of discussing twin-tip snowboards when they came out some 20 years ago. It's all new territory...kinda cool when you think about it...

[ThomasNguyen]

It's likely that the expensive patent process was factored into the cost of the bi-level also (maybe when Horrell sues Hyperlite he'll drop the price of the bi-level 2, sueing (sp?), the american way )

On the design of the bi-level, I personally think there is far more potential into it than just the fulcrum (even though as a Mechanical Engineering student I couldn't think of that, and I've been thinking about the bi-level concept for more than a year and a half now). I think the Bi-level will become a standard, just in a more "evolved" form, or de-evolved, whichever way you look at it.

[RUSSIAN]

Unfortunatly, in this industry the price almost never comes down. People always try to say that as the sport gets bigger that the costs of things will go down, But if you look at wakeboarding the price of things has steadily gone up. You could also look at snow resorts, They charge more and more every year, even though more people get into it every year.

[satori*]

i definitely think its personal preferance. maybe in a few years when the board becomes more known about and reviewed and it can be economized and efficient it could become the norm. but kids will still ride normal concaves, they may even start calling them old school boards.
i have ridden it, and the board has amzing pop. but for me, i know it would be tough to get used to, maybe even unmanagable for technical tricks (even though it makes no evident difference to thomas and aaron). and more importantly i definitely wouldnt spend 300 dollars on a wooden board, let a alone a board that has only been in developement for less than a year. im not saying it wont be reliable- other than the grip job it was solid when i rode it, but theres still bugs to be worked and who knows longevity it will have.

[Andrew Wilson]

ill stick with integrity

[ThomasNguyen]

RUSSIAN, I forgot about that. Now this reminds me of Erich's little Fanta Shokata commercial he made.

[colorless]

Depends on how easy it is; if shuvits, k-flips, and other tricks are landable then sure it could be a new standard. it's hard to tell when only a handful of people have rode it on these forums. once people start riding them, you'll be able to tell more, but obviously time will tell.
my 2 cents.

[xboard32x]

i would think it would be real heavy cuz the two decks obviously. But i wanna ride one and see how it rides.

[satori*]

i know first hand pretty much everything with normal decks is possible with bi's. its just a matter of getting acustom.

the pop makes up for the weight, and you cant really tell anyway. its not unreasonably heavier

[parky]

I am absolutly possitive that this skate will be like any other skate I either love it or hate it... I have already heard mixed opinions about it on here... from the video thomas' kickflip didn't look any higher or better than he was doing it on the 4trac... I have to admit that reeds oille was pritty damm high but im pritty sure he can do it just as high on his 4trac...

the main thing here is the bi level isn't the board to save all boards... I have to admit that I would like to try one.. and if I could I might buy one but the main thing is this skate isn't going to change the face of wakeskating as we know it... it might influence skating into a new direction but not drasticly


personal preferance


wow that was probably the most insitefull post ive ever made

[kento911]

I think if there is going to be a Bi-level that revolutionizes the industry and sets a standard as "the new design" it will have to be something with a bottomdeck like the integ and a compression molded wood core top deck, just my thought but I think it was said before 300 for a wood deck is BS.

[parky]

I have to admit 300$ is alot for a wood skate

[gregg]

Nick Taylor, oyu mentioned that a single deck is more skate like, where, as physics og, the bi-level is mre like skating.

i dont think there will be tricks that can only be done on the bi-level, on the other hand, i do think tha poeple will be able to throw tricks bigger and more stylish.

with time there will new and better variations to the bi-level, and i dont think it will phase out like a fad. instead of a flat vs concave choice, in the future i see there being 1 vs 2 deck choice and the flat decks being phased out.

my dream board: a bi-level with integrity composite on the bottom and cassete wood on top, now that would give MASSIVE pop and be pretty light

[gregg]

oh shoot, sry kento911, i didn't read your post about the board, i guess great minds think alike

[electricsnow]

I think it's hard to say, but I do think that this is the beginning of the future for wakeskate design. I personally am psyched on the deck and I will be riding one. As of yet, I haven't heard anyone on here (that has ridden the deck) say a bad thing about it. And it's really interesting to hear people say that they couldn't ollie on a regular deck after riding the bi-level, so I do feel that there is something to the design. but it's not like every single person will like it, so there is an element of personal choice to it, as there is with any wakeskate out there.

Also, I don't think it takes just "a wakeskate design" to push wakeskating into another direction. I think back to guys like rodney mullen and tony hawk, and the stuff they rode on, and they were able to take skateboarding in a completely different direction. I guess in wakeskating, I would point at thomas horrell. When you watch "fire it up" you can totally see the two differing styles that were once prevalent in wakeskating, and you kind of get a glipmse as to the direction it would take (ie. thomas kickflipping that cut down wakeboard). I think that if anything, it's up to the rider and their personal creativity to dictate the direction of the art. However, that's not to say that equipment can't help, because not everyone is super human. Hopefully, by me saying "twin tips" or "concaves" I won't have to go into depth on that issue (or, tough beans, because I won't anyway:).

And when you think about it, wakeskating has already evolved. It started out with more of a surfstyle feel, with barefoot riding and hang tens on long-ass boards (but don't forget, byerly could shove the crap out of those things!), and now it's fully skate style with a touch of its own aquatic-personality. It's freaking awesome!!

[nick]