This matters

wakeskate77 · Frontside 180 Joined: 20 Sep 2003 Posts: 335 City: HELL

The American Dream!

Described in song by the great Hank Williams Jr.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPg9StVNNqI

waterdork88 · Frontside 180 Joined: 12 Dec 2004 Posts: 426 City: Orlando

waterdork88 · Frontside 180 Joined: 12 Dec 2004 Posts: 426 City: Orlando

WERDna · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 541

A monopoly is a monopoly no matter its status as private, its power in the market is still as dangerous especially considering the size of the industry.

What says the given monopoly would increase it's prices to $1,000 dollars?

If they have cornered the market i would assume someone as crafty as Finn wouldn't be so aggressive with the price inflation, because he would lose his consumer market in the manner you stated before. If the monoply keeps the product at a considerable price and the rest of the market has been bullied out of the indusry they will be making more profit than they originally were hoping for.

And if small businesses have been forced out the door by the monopoly with its Patent's jurisdiction then i would have to disagree with you when you say "your business deserves to die".

I appreciate your opinion though, because i would rather hear a reponse along the same lines as yours then someone who does a qucik read on this and just flips their opinion on LF and Finn within seconds.

WERDna · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 541

waterdork88 · Frontside 180 Joined: 12 Dec 2004 Posts: 426 City: Orlando

WERDna · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 541

What you describe to me sounds parallel to Wal-Mart and most the country understands how that is destroying small businesses and people still shop there, which makes this whole ordeal scarier to me.

The Bug · Frontside 180 Joined: 16 Sep 2004 Posts: 434 City: Redding

Skating in its various forms (skateboarding, wakeskating, longboarding) will never die. Strapping cannot die soon enough.

samcollett · Posted: Mar 23, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject:

WERDna, I think it's really cool that you're trying to analyze this situation from a microeconomic standpoint and I'm not sure of your education level (high school, college, beyond, etc.), but you've got to realize that the economy (especially when analyzed from a consumer standpoint) does not operate exclusively by the rules of a high school textbook. How would you expect to file a federal lawsuit based on horizontal and/or vertical integration? There is nothing illegal/wrong about either of those. The key difference between the two is that horizontal integration focuses on numerous, diverse markets. That's not something that we see with watersports (you highlighted this yourself in saying that the wakeskating/wakeboarding industries are one in the same). Vertical integration focuses on the supply side of the equation and leads to the formation of cartels (such as OPEC). I could give you many more examples, but I haven't taken a micro course since my freshman or sophomore year of college.

Also, are you aware of the requirements for a complaint to be federally actionable? In this case, you might be able to fulfill the diversity requirement, but it would be hard to prove that the specific complaint involved more than $75,000 of losses. In the legal system, you can't just walk up to the Supreme Court and scream that Finn f*cked water sports out of millions. That's much too broad of a claim, and the type of proceedings you're suggesting would rack up years and years of legal fees in the multi-millions, and innumerable different civil suits. As sad as it is, solely based on what I've gotten from this article, the man hasn't done anything illegal. Morally wrong, yes. Crucifiable by the little guy, yes. Unfortunately though, a civil suit against Finn would be very, very difficult to prove. I see several cases a year along the same lines as this one that are deemed not legally actionable, or given no standing to sue.

Now, please do not get offended by this as that was not my intention. From previous posts of yours, I can tell that you always like tackling issues from an outside of the box point of view. That being said, you can never fully understand something as complex as the economy solely by reading a textbook. You have a very interesting opinion though, and it's refreshing to see someone addressing the Finn issue from an economic standpoint....it makes me feel like less of a nerd.

The bottom line is, as WERDna said, to support the small companies. Regardless of my previous rebuttal of sorts, the small companies are what drive sports, much like the small businesses are the backbone of the American economy. I'm stoked on the direction that wakeskating is heading. As someone mentioned earlier, it seems to me that it's drifting further and further away from wakeboarding. More than Machines highlighted this, my friends that I ride with highlight this, and the difference of mentality between wakeboarders and wakeskaters highlight this. It's sad to me...but not surprising...to read this article. I would be curious to hear the other side of the story so I could form my own balance between the two. As someone also said before me, the best thing that a wakeskater can do is to forget the bulljive and keep riding for nothing else other than the love you have for the water. It sounds really gay and really cheesy, but it's 100% true.

I need to add this as well...
Too many action sports sects are plagued by riders (consumers) that just don't give a f*ck. We can't be those people. This also sounds cliche, but if we want change in our sport, WE have got to be the ones to care and incite change. In the end, we are the ones with the power to control the sport. Sitting idly by and watching the world pass may seem like the way to be to some, but it gets nothing done. Examples to follow are the little guys pumping out the videos and pushing the progression. Blast!, For the Gator, OTT, More than Machines, and kids riding behind whatever the hell they can get their hands on. Seriously...we have made it "cool" to ride behind a bateau equipped with a dangerously out of place aluminum tower. There's an entire goddamn thread about how to do it the "right" way. If we can do that, we can certainly map out our own future.

waterdork88 · Frontside 180 Joined: 12 Dec 2004 Posts: 426 City: Orlando

mojo · Posted: Mar 23, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject:

Wal mart is a monopoly. Their buying power is so huge they set their own prices, not get bulk discounts. And nobody can compete.

WERDna · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 541

samcollett, I understand the ridiculousness of even making this into supreme court issue at the moment, and with your statement that responded to the legality of what he is doing is still nothing that can be punished for from a lawful stand point, but my point i stated in my post is that if he continues with his trend of actions molding the wake industry to his liking, i could see it getting out of control and legal action needing to be done in the future to calm him down, and let the wake community to decide its own fate not one man.

If i could put a statement to give a clear opinion i have about this it would be,

if we give Finn an inch he will take a mile, and then charge us to drive on it.

samcollett · Posted: Mar 23, 2011 11:58 pm Post subject:

Wal-Mart is absolutely not a monopoly. It may have monopolistic tendencies in certain sectors, but it does not control the entire retail market. Wal-Mart is basically accused of being a monopoly because it gives challengers more standing ground for the purpose of argument. You've also got to consider retail giants like Target popping up everywhere. In my hometown, Target gets more business than Wal-Mart. I'm not sticking up for Wal-Mart and its ability to completely destroy the small business sector, but it's definitely not a monopoly. This thread isn't about Wal-Mart though.

Disclaimer: I cannot stand Wal-Mart.

samcollett · Posted: Mar 23, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject:

WERDna, Unfortunately, it seems that we've already given him more than an inch. So, let's take it back.

WERDna · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 541

samcollett, i wouldn't say we have "given" him anything, i would say he has "taken".

My statement is referring more to the idea once we GIVE up and call it not our problem and GIVE him the keys to the future of our sport, he'll take more than we could imagine (a mile).

but when you want to take it back, ill be right at your side.

SEAMAN · Frontside 180 Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 388 City: Atlanta

What was the point of this thread?

What does Tony Finn or Liquid Force have to do with anything?

Wal-mart is not a monopoly, look up the definition. Though it is almost the perfect business model (in theory). But short-term savings lead to long-term problems for a consumer.

So all im saying is, think about where you want wakeskating to be in the future, realize it takes money to do all of this, and put your money where you want wakeskating to go.

BOB ARCHER DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WAKESKATERS!!!

(in my best kanye voice(i don't have a kanye voice because I dislike him with a passion))

WERDna · Backside 180 Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 541

SEAMAN, i'm not sure if you were being abstract or if you were asking literally, but i would hope you know cause you made it Very Happy

i think its to get people to discuss how they feel this could impact the wake industry (includes wakeksating), and to better inform the wakeskate community out there of the people shuffling around behind the curtain.

tyn · Pop Shuvit Joined: 12 Oct 2008 Posts: 135 City: Orlando

Handshake cures all!

http://www.unleashedwakemag.com/?p=2319