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hypo
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Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Jan 24, 2004 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
if the idea's patented, it's illegal to replicate the item


ewww...i'm soooo scared....hurry, send the winch police.

for real though, if the product is overpriced, you would have to expect folks to make their own. this product at 1400 is inaccessable for many. especially when many of these parts are sitting in someones garage. some kids cant afford a new skate, so, they make their own.
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electricsnow
cassette


Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 10735
City: Jefferton

PostPosted: Jan 24, 2004 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, the answer would be "no" because their winch wasn't made for wakeskating. I'm sure somewhere in their (rewind's) detailed patent it says something in there about it being made for wakeskating, not pulling cars out of ditches, etc. That's what makes it different (amongst other technicalities, I'm sure). By the way, I don't think I mentioned anything about one super smart person.

Hypo, the winch police? Gimme a break. However, copying an item without permission that is patented is against the law. Did you know that when windshield wipers were invented, car manufacturers simply "borrowed" the technology and in the end, ended up paying the inventor "one MILLION dollars" (actually, it was more than that but I felt like dropping an austin powers reference) because it was patented? I learned that in history class...

I have my beliefs on this matter and clearly 99% of you have yours that are the complete opposite. We're the spice of life...

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thewinch
Ollie
Ollie


Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Jan 25, 2004 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electricsnow is pretty smart even if he is a minority, but not in Miami because there him and his people's are the majority and I'm the minority but thats ok, since when did this turn into a race issue any damn way?
I just sold like 3 more winchs today so they can't be too over priced.
Just save your money or better yet just get a job and earn it, then you'll take care of it better.Do you guys and girls want me to send you some video we shot with it today, its tight work!

P.S. the winch police might not show up at your door, but a lawsuit might.
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ollieshuvitz
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Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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City: east bay area

PostPosted: Jan 25, 2004 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yo, I just bought one of the winchs today for $1500. It was $1400, but the craftsmanship in it was so high, I tipped Rewind an extra $100. I used to think that I could just build one or make one out of a moped. I wasted alot of money in it and got really pissed. So, I emailed Rewind and bought a real winch. This thing is TIGHT!!! I would deffinetly discourage anyone who thinks they could build their own. Just save up and buy the real thing -dont deal with wasted time and money, just buy one and ride!
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funnyfeni
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Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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City: casselberry

PostPosted: Jan 25, 2004 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

now i dont know much about patents and stuff.. but say this... all the parts to build one is at the home depot and u can buy all those parts and make one, it would look a little different and have different things... but how would i get in trouble for that?..... now say if i go to the computer store and make my own computer with all the same parts just as a regular top of line computer. i dont see myself getting sued over it. i see my self saving a lot of money... isnt it just like a recipe, if i copy a recipe and use it in a restraunt, i can get in trouble, but if i change something like regular sugar to brown sugar. all is good. now please fill me in how this patent stuff works..

now i dont have $1500, i work 40 hours a week and im a full time student with other bills. i wasnt born into a rich family so i cant pull $1500 out of my ass. so what happened to the "only a couple of hundred dollars" for the winch?
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sim
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Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 219
City: Thorpe

PostPosted: Jan 25, 2004 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get me wrong guy's, I'm saving for a winch, but I need to get real production skate first!! The 'thing' we've made is just to give us some simple pleasure until we have the money.
Matt, I have a question for you. I'm over in the UK so whats the deal with shipping and so on. Will it be the same thing cassette do and charge the same amount in pounds as they do in dollars, therfore making it the equivilant of $2,000? A cassette deck is the same as $330 in england, which is just taking the f*cking piss for a piece of plained wood. If the winch is going to be a silly price, there are now 'well off' wkaeskaters/boarders in the UK, so it just won't sell. have a think. At the same time, keep up the good work, the wakeskate community is very privileged to have someone like you. peace
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Last edited by sim on Feb 11, 2011 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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electricsnow
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Joined: 14 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Jan 25, 2004 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thewinch, when I said "I'm a minority on here," I was using that as an expression because most of the people didn't agree with my view point--you know, the majority vs. the minority. It wasn't meant to be a race issue at all.

feni, I dont' know all of the details, but restaurants don't have patents (or copyrights, that I know of) on their recipes. I don't know about computers. I'm not rich either. In fact, my boat is worth as much as one winch. But the way I see it, it's all about priorities. THere are kids out there that don't have any problems dropping 800.00+ on a new set-up for wakeboarding, and there are kids/people that will save their $$ and go to a wakeboard camp multiple times a year. If you want something bad enough, you'll work and save (that doesn't mean you'll get it right away--patience is a virtue).

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funnyfeni
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PostPosted: Jan 25, 2004 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well the way i look at it.. i dont see anyway how i would get sued over making one of my own. because i can see some many other things you can compare it too with patenting things and making things from that idea. the recipe thing does have some kind of copyright law. with the kids that save there money and go to camps and drop all the money down.. about 75% are loaded, i respect the other kids from working for the money and saving up for it. but for now im going to start building one for myself. i see nothing wrong with it, but if i were to sell it,then i know its wrong..

lets get dave on this. what would you do?
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TL
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Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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City: Christchurch

PostPosted: Jan 25, 2004 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It all depends on the wording of the patent, how broadly its written. Some patents you can get around by just changing one part. In this case because there is nothing like it in the marketplace currently, I'm geussing the patent has a wide scope so that its hard for copycat companies to start up. All this is just conjecture though 'cause I couldn't find it through a patent search.

I agree with sim in that building your own is a stop gap measure until we can afford to buy the real product (and until they start selling them in NZ). For me personally, building one is half the fun and I'm under no illusions that my gizmo will be anywhere near as good as thewinch (its not meant to be).

Similar goes with building your own skates, its the fact that its yours, you made it. Plus whenever I cant' go to the lake we skate in a waterrace about 3 feet wide and 1 foot deepbehind a four-wheeler, no way in hell am I going to take a NZ$480 4-trac down that. I use homemade skates when I don't want to ruin the real thing.

Oh and sim, the 4-trac has slightly more to it than "a piece of plained wood" try building one yourself and you appreciate how good, how much testing and design has gone into making the 4-trac.

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thewinch
Ollie
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Joined: 24 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Jan 25, 2004 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electricsnow where were you today? I thought for sure Butter mag would have been on the shoot for the new Alliance movie. We were in South Beach today on 23rd and collins filming with the winch. Martinsack got like 5 pulls from a record 550 feet and all deep water starts, he weighs like 220lbs now. We found out that 220lbs and 500 feet is the limit for the winch because we shot a hole in the engine block when the motor blew up. Grubb had just did a huge dock start when it blew up...it will be in the movie i'm sure it was pretty funny I have to admit. We are already up and running again bigger motor now!
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nick
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PostPosted: Jan 25, 2004 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what DID hapeen to the "only a couple hundred dollars" thing?
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Dave Barousse
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PostPosted: Jan 25, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

lets get dave on this. what would you do?


Personally, I would buy one. I'm not a "build my own" type of person. Some people are, and there is nothing wrong with that. I know how much research, testing and work they have been putting into the winch project and there is no way I have the time to do that for a homegrown version.

I think it is really cheap compared to all of the other options. The cost of a winch isn't even a good downpayment on a new boat or pwc and it gives you access to ride just about anywhere. Not a bad deal.

If it isn't available in your country, then I guess you really don't have a choice but to try and build your own.
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electricsnow
cassette


Joined: 14 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Jan 26, 2004 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thewinch, that sounds like something paco would normally have taken part in (especially because it was in miami). I guess I don't know what he was up to this weekend...
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galenone
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Joined: 28 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Jan 26, 2004 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a lawsuite, kiss my ass dude. all i want to do is have a good time with my boys at a normal non rich kid way. keep on catering too the spoiled and shuv 1500 dollars up your ass cause my winch will be used once summer roles around and i'll send you footage for your high priced lawyer that you can now afford after ripping off kids with your contraption. peace.
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nick
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PostPosted: Jan 26, 2004 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

galenone, that was completely inappropriate and rude. i dont think that any of that was necessary and while im not goin to buy one, i do however support the winch and all associated with it. u need to think about what u say and who ur sayin it to. please, if ur goin to be like that do it somewhere else Confused
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TL
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PostPosted: Jan 26, 2004 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

galenone, they have a right to protect their product dude, whether you like it or not they did start building and using them before anyone else
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electricsnow
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PostPosted: Jan 26, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God, kids complain about everything. I can understand a 50,000 dollar wakeboard boat, but a 1400.00 dollar winch? I'm sure they're rolling in it, considering all of the work they've put into the product and the fact that the wakeskating industry isn't that large yet.

galenone, it wouldn't even be a big deal if you had the foresight and motivation to think of this before it was patented, but now that rewind has made the winch a reality, all of a sudden all these people (including you) have all of this motivation to make their own. That's what REALLY bothers me about the whole thing.

Actually, I think sending rewind a few pictures of your winch is a fine idea. Don't forget to include your address, and make sure your face is visible in the pictures...

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funnyfeni
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City: casselberry

PostPosted: Jan 26, 2004 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im with galenone.. who gives a shizzle if i build something.. i like working with my hands and building things. so when i made a crib for my nephew when he was born it was illegal because it looks just like one in the stores. so should they sue me?? chickity china the chinese chicken that! you cant stop people from building things even with lawsuits. good luck sueing my poor ass.
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Dave Barousse
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PostPosted: Jan 26, 2004 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone please explain to me why people are so angry about this?
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thewinch
Ollie
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Joined: 24 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Jan 26, 2004 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, it sounds like to me that Galenone is a little bit envious of rich kids or financially secure kids that can afford this winch, that I built and sell.
My standpoint on this issue is, good luck, but be sure to send me some pics of this winch that you and your boyfriends (as you inferred in your previous statement) are building. I wanna see how your little "wanna be" mechanically inclined self think that this thing could possibly work without copying my design (keep in-mind that every design that has been posted online including the new one, has been unsuccessful. The production model (the successful model) that we have been using for the last few days hasen't even been seen yet by the public such as yourself. So go to "Thewinch.com" and copy that design because that was the whole point, to defer uncreative and copycat individuals such as yourself but of coarse not excluding others.
Oh, and by the way I don't have to pay a lawyer, I'm almost through with law school, maybe you'll be my first case.
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