winch

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

thanks, I just talked to Thomas at Irvine and he said the same thing, he said it shpulde be up soon,

Iwksk8 · Ollie Joined: 06 Jun 2004 Posts: 56 City: New Port Richey

I would not attempt to create one of these 'winch'es myself because of safety reasons, but I think some people are confused what the patent law is meant to protect. Even if someone has a patent on a hardware design, the patent law does not make it wrong for a third party to create his own hardware from scratch that works just like how the patent describes AS LONG AS THAT INDIVIDUAL DOES NOT SALE THAT ITEM to another party. Patents do not prevent "making". They prevent making for another's use.

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

Iwksk8, is absolutely right , my dad has been one of the top engineers in his field for nearly 20 years, and he has hundreds of patents, so naturally I double checked with him before spouting off on this forum, but as long as you don't offer the product for resale you are more than welcome to try w/o legal repercussions, and I am going to try to make one, however "winch" I am going to use an electric motor, because of the fact that I can plug mine in at my secret spot, and b/c of the fact that an electric motor creates all of it's torque at stall unlike a gas motor (less hp nessicary to do deep water starts), and the best part is an electric motor gives me a constant, easily calculable RPM so the formula to figue out how thick to make the spool was butter, you can't stomp the entrepenurial(sp?) spirit of people, what if someone had told you the same when you tried to develop the winch might I guess you would take serious offence, might I add rightly so. Im not trying to put you out of buisness, and I won't sell mine, and I will post pics, b/c I know it won't break any of you patents, nor am I intimidated by your threats, or discouraged by your naysaying Im not sure who said it earlier, but they were correct, "in sales you CAN shine or NOT", I have rude obnoxious customers all the time, one that said worse to me than what has been said on this thread,(my mother was insulted) and I still made the point that that was not acceptable and then addressed his problem; I maintained my composure and more importantly MY CUSTOMER, Im not saying your a bad person, or that I hate you. I am saying your approach has been crappy from the start, you came out the gate saying things you wouldn't have accepted in our position and deteriorated from there, Im also going to say the people who out and out attacked him that was just low brow, and in the furture perhaps a more eloquent response would be in order. I will say however, I will not buy one of your winches simply because of how you treated your potential customers on this site: I asked twice for your site and got no response and had to go track down Thomas Horrell ( whom I have never met in my life) at the worlds to get some damn answers, that is poor buisness practice, I have posted on this site before, about the inevitibility(sp?) of certain companies buisness practices, but even I know you NEVER ignore or insult current or potential customers, Almost everyone on my post saw how Erich responded to one of my tyeraids, it was a masterful piece of PR, that still made his point clear, and I owe him thanks because after he calmed me down, I was able to make my point right or wrong in the eyes of the people on this site, my advise to you is hone your sales skills or you will find doors closing to you quickly, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.

electricsnow · cassette Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 10735 City: Jefferton

Kento911, you didn't specify this in your post, so I'll just say this. If you Pm'd thewinch and he didn't get back to you, then I would agree with you on this one. However, if you just expected him to read your post and then reply, you should look at his posting history. The last time he made a post on here was on june 15th, and then before that it was april 30th.

And when you look at this thread, notice that when it was "hot" he responded to nearly every issue and question everyone had. Perhaps he's busy in miami, but don't call him a shiznackle business man just because he didn't answer your post on ws.com (again, provided that it wasn't a PM he ignored).

And don't blame it on him because other people didn't give you the website.

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

electricsnow, that was just one example, and my statement stands based on his words and actions throughout the post.

seven11dmd · Posted: Jul 22, 2004 12:35 am Post subject:

ButterBen, just wanted to say u might wanna tone it down a bit seeing as ur new to the board and all

kento911 · Kickflip Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3657 City: Phoenix

yeah Ben isn't serious, he's just razzinelectricsnow, I tried to warn him, but this just carried over from the other post, hopefully nobody gets too pissed

wakebadass · Pop Shuvit Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 130 City: McHenry

does anyone know a website that i can buy one from, cuz i wanna see what it looks lime and stuff thanks

ollieshuvitz · Posted: Jul 22, 2004 11:51 am Post subject:

Currently, there is no such retail web site.

stompin9s · Posted: Jul 22, 2004 4:10 pm Post subject:

Chris41, how did u guys get your winch?

ollieshuvitz · Posted: Jul 23, 2004 12:54 am Post subject:

I would tell you, but I would have to kill you first. Just kidding. ReWind helped us out, but its not a commercial version.

dreamjibber · Posted: Aug 20, 2004 12:07 am Post subject: siht daer uoy nac

OK heres what I think

I have taken the time to look around the web for info on the winch (most info came from this site or alliance wakeboarding). Ill tell you what; from what i have seen this thing is well worth the 1400 they are asking (it sure as hell aint no modified moped). This thing is siznick!! mad props to the designers. I will definately be purchasing one "with my buddies" in the near future.

But...

patenting this thing is like patenting a lawn mower, or a car.
do you think that the automobile would be where it is today if Henry Ford patented his car?

if Mastercraft designed the first wakeboard specific boat and said "now, nobody can copy us or we'll sue!" do you think wakeboard boat tech would be where it is today? probably not.

This Country is so great because of the freedoms we have to do (mostly) as we please. Now I am all for capitalism, and i think these guys should sell thier product for at least what they are asking now, but trying to stop others from creating a comparable product is counterproductive to what you say your goal really is "to progress the sport of wakeskating" (and of course to make money, but hear me out).

Of course you can protect certain design aspects about your product. but i wouldnt try to corner the market just yet. i would invite competition. more winches = more wakeskaters = more people buyin winches, which by the way costs about 97% less than buying a boat, it can go places a boat cant go, uses way less gas, doesnt have seating capacity limitations doesnt need to be registered, and doesnt need insurance...bitchin!!!
this thing pays for itself in savings!

ill bet thewinch a hundred bucks that in two years you will see atleast four different winch companies ads in wakeboarding mag. and in the end (or just the begining) the superior product at a fair price will prevail. at this time the "rewind" winch IS the superior product (especialy to the modified moped of non wakeskating) at a fair price....i think. and by the way, i am not a well to do, just a realist...have you guys seen this thing? 1 to 2 hundred dollars, HAH! machines like this rent for one to two hundred dollars a day! and this thin is way cooler than any dirt tamper.
I really cant wait to ride up to it

so lets review...

bitchen product
ill buy one
fair price
what marketing?(come on guys, these things should be selling like flap f@Ckin& jacks)
there will be copies, and they will be legal...use them to your advantage
you guys are at the forefront, and there is no substitute for experiance

Brady