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The Bible
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Gnarly Dancer 42
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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: The Bible Reply with quote

okay I realize most people in our culture hate talking about religion and instantly try to change the subject when it comes up, but...

what do you think about this video?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRemWMIy2IY


why do so many people think it's just a book of fairy tales?

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pipo
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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: The Bible Reply with quote

Quote:
Video Responses
This video is a response to Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Official Trailer (HD - Best Quality)


Really?
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knox
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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a couple of videos that explain why I believe that the bible is a story and not a history.

Christopher Hitchens




Sam Harris


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Gnarly Dancer 42
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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe i'm missing something, but it just seems like those guys don't agree with what the bible has to say and they haven't proved it to be false
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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2013 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you believe that Jonah lived in a whale for 3 days?

Do you believe in talking snakes?

Do you believe in the miracles Jesus performed?

You would have to believe these things based purely on scripture. There is no recording of these things happening other than the bible. The evidence is equivalent to believing in Spiderman after reading a comic book. You may say that the bible holds more value as an ancient text, but what about the Quran? What about every other major world religion? Have you given them equal consideration?

This is an interesting chart with all of the contradictions in the bible, cited. There are quite a few of them.

http://sciencebasedlife.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/biblecontradictions-reasonproject.png

I stopped believing in the bible when I realized that if it were true, that God was quite literally the worst tyrant to ever exist. If he was a man on Earth he would be hated more than Hitler or Stalin. He performs and encourages genocide, slavery, and favoritism.

My main question is, have you ever read the bible? Nothing convinced me that it was bulljive more than actually flipping through the pages.

Here's a pretty simple but funny cartoon that illustrates some of the more serious negative aspects of the bible, and how Christians typically react to being told how terrifyingly evil their God actually was in the Bible.



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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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senorbueno
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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gnarly Dancer 42 wrote:
maybe i'm missing something, but it just seems like those guys don't agree with what the bible has to say and they haven't proved it to be false


You haven't presented any evidence that proves what the bible says is real. To be religious takes faith. The definition of faith is belief that is not based on proof. I can't disprove that god exists, the same way I cannot prove that god does not exist. People who aren't religious struggle to get past the lack of proof, while people who ware religious are able to accept their faith in a higher power.
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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because every argument that "proves" the bible always starts "the bible says....". That's not evidence. That's all this video does. He first explains how to make paper, then says the bible is true because the bible says so.



A question I've always had that's kind of related. If there is a truly loving and all-powerful god, why are we not born with the knowledge in us already? Why, depending on your geographical location or time period of birth, are you subject to different religious beliefs based on the current common system in which you are born? And even then, why is it open to so much interpretation allowing for shiznackle people to bend things to their personal beliefs and use the argument "THE BIBLE SAYS"? Shouldn't it be a clear constant throughout all of time and location in the entire universe?



In any case, if you have faith, nobody is going to shake it. If it helps you and makes you happy to believe it, believe it. I have a problem when religion is used to impede someone else's personal life (for example; political issues) but in the day to day, I'm glad it can change people's personal lives for the better.


As for me, I'm going to continue living my life how I want and spend it having fun and trying to make other people's lives better. I don't believe we've got anything after this life so we need to make the most of it. It's kind of a bummer but also beautiful. Your lifetime is your ultimate work of art.
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GnarShredd
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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, even if the bible were true, I agree with what The Kid brought up. If god were real, he'd be the biggest piece of shizzle of all time.
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senza wake
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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just as anything in this life, your point of view and desire can change drastically that which you seek after or believe.
if you dont want to believe in God, you wont. I personally completely believe in God.
Gnarshredd you bring up a great point about why we arent born with a knowledge of God's existence if He really does exist. If you were put into a physics exam with all of the answers written on a sheet of paper next to the exam and all you had to do was copy the answers over to your copy of the exam, would you learn anything? just as the struggle and strain of studying and trial and error best helps you understand material in school, this life gives us an opportunity to find answers and have experiences for ourselves. we get to find out for ourselves about God's existence. its a learning struggle and strain, but because it is, we actually learn something. I personally greatly appreciate your way of life that supports people who are religious if it makes them a better person. because that is exactly what my religion does. I am a much happier person with much more focus and drive when I center my life on it.
As far as the Bible goes, I believe it. I know for fact though that it has some incorrect or impartial parts. I also know that if we are speaking of an all knowing Being, and we criticize what He has done (as according to the Bible) that could easily be compared to a child criticizing a Doctor for cutting someones leg off that has to be done to save their life from infection. if God does trully exist, and is therefore this all knowing Being, then clearly He would have a much greater understanding of things and perhaps lots of those stories that are contained in the Bible have much more of a background and outcome than we understand. again like a doctor amputating a leg. that would seem to most who are not medically informed like a crazy, absurd thing to do.
anyway, I believe in God, I believe the Bible has many great and amazing things to teach us however it is NOT a perfect book. I could talk for days on this, in fact, I spent two years of my life dedicated to share my belief in God with others in a foreign land. so please, ask away, I'd love to share what I believe because I know it has made me a better person.
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GnarShredd
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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

senza wake, I see what you're saying but it just doesn't make sense to me. Using your physics exam example. As a student you have at least an outlined goal point to hit and that goal is the same for everyone in the class. You are also directly taught the information that is based on undeniable facts proven via the scientific method. With religion, your goal is based on where/when you were born and you're only given a vague outline to fill in the blanks and intemperate for yourself.


A "good" Christian in the past isn't the same as one now and there are multiple religions one can be born in to. Your 'end goal' is not the same depending on when/where you just happen to be born. I'd imagine an all-powerful and vein god would want everyone to at least be born with an idea of him to work towards and wouldn't need the help of mortals to spread that through taking advantage of under-educated and poverty-stricken people across the world going on missions.
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senza wake
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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i do understand that my example of a student in physics is flawed, that is something i just came up with on the fly. but to take it just a touch further, you said that everything taught and learned in the class would be based on proven fact. that is true. however i have never personally proven that the speed of light is c=299,792,458 m/s. but others have, and because of this we can believe their findings and use it to then study further. in religion their are certainly those who claim to have found or experienced certain things and thats where faith comes in. even if we dont have a proven or perfect knowledge of what we are taught in religion, we can use what we are taught to further study and find out for ourselves if what they have said is true. trust me i totally understand when you say that lots of this just doesnt make sense. i believe however that the more we study into God and His existence, the more sense it can make. but again like i said, if you dont want to believe in God, you wont. so in other words it is necessary to at least have a small part of you open to the fact that God could in fact exist. then perhaps you just might eventually find that there are things that can help you believe. faith grows. faith strengthens even. what starts out as a small belief can certainly become something much more.
i have always stood by the fact that a belief in God is totally personal, so having someone else prove to you that God exists is useless. you have to personally experience it. sorry im short on time so i'll share my opinion on different religions later... because you have an excellent point
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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just adding a little confusion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE

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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

senza wake, The difference though is that even if you haven't personally tested the speed of light, you or anyone else who wanted to test it would get the same result if you did. Heck, even if someone wanted to start from scratch with no outside knowledge that someone had already done it, they'd get the same result assuming their methods were sound. It's not a matter of opinion or faith; it is a solid fact as it's been tested, observed, and retested by various parties and in various ways and has been individually confirmed by each of them to be the same result. You say it is a belief but it is NOT. That is the difference. You can test science over and over again and you will get the same result.


The bible is its own source and there is no additional resource that can support its claims. Sticking with our example, it is like a physics book that someone wrote without source materials or others to verify the findings. Like any historical event (fact or not), unless you have more than one first-hand account or hard evidence or the events, you can't say that it's true.




Don't take any of this as me trying to convince people to come to my side of the argument, I'm just genuinely curious as to what people think. It's rare to be able to have a conversation like this without someone getting upset and leaving the room. haha.
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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bible is not a science manual. It is a group of stories that give advice on how to live a better life, and the simple things like respect. Get over the fact that a bunch of dumb people want to believe that Noah built an ark and shît... All of that had deeper meaning. Google it. Fûck religion, and everything that try's to influence you in a way you don't believe in. Be you. But don't hate on people that are dumb and need or think they need someone to believe in to give them the strength to carry on and treat people right. Be men. Allow others to believe in what they want.... Unless what they believe in is affecting you.
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senza wake
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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha i understand. no worries here, i love talking about religion actually and dont really get offended.
as far as the finding the speed of light example, let us continue:
I do actually believe that if anyone wanted to find out that God exists, they can. very similar to how you correctly say that it should be possible for anyone to find the same results as long as they follow sound methods. i firmly believe this. i believe this as i have tried this for myself.
so i will first off say again as i said before, desire is critical. you have to want to believe in God. He is not going to force anyone to believe in Him that doesnt want to. Let us take a verse from the Bible as we are discussing it. in the New Testament, from the book of James chapter 1 verse 5 it says "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."
so as wisdom that we lack lets say that it is as we are talking about the knowledge of whether or not God exists. as for asking of God, well that some would call prayer, this is what i believe but not anything memorized as sometimes encouraged by some religions. i believe this is sincere communion with God. speaking with him as one man speaks to another. talking. then clearly its saying that this wisdom will be given. upbraideth not is just saying that He doesnt hold back. so i would suggest that anyone trying out these methods finds a place where they feel peaceful, calm. this may be out on the water for many. i find that the mountains are my place of serenity.
now simply put them to the test. i will agree, i am claiming that all will find similar results, but i do not claim that they will find them in the same manner or situation. as i am sure that it is possible to find the speed of light in more than one way.
the reason i am comfortable writing these things is because i have tried this type of method for myself. i simply asked God if He does actually exist. let me be clear, i do not claim that you will see angels, or hear voices, but i do claim that whether immediately or maybe even days to weeks to months later, you will get an answer.
it may not come in a way that you expect either. as i tried asking God if he exists(i've done this many times just so you know) i felt a peace and calm that i can sincerely say was an answer to my question. this is a personal thing tho, and tho i believe that anyone can feel this too, i think that for everyone it will be slightly different. but just as we said in the speed of light example, the resulting knowledge will be the same. God Exists.
now this is all difficult to express well through typed words but please, keep up the discussion. also i'd love to clarify anything i've said if needed.
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PostPosted: Apr 16, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offense meant but to be blunt I don't know why I try to have these conversations. It's not because of the people I talk with, but just the topic at hand. Like I said initially, nobody can shake your faith if it's what you believe and if it's just a 'feeling' you have then unfortunately it's not something that's relevant to me. We're both looking for such different things that it's not really comparable. Best advice, carry-on and live your life.


I more or less agree with everything in ZackFL(BRE)'s statement. Didn't mean to be coming off otherwise.
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senza wake
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PostPosted: Apr 16, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no offense taken. i understand completely. thanks for the discussion. i agree completely with your carry-on and live your life comment. just live it well. religious or not, i just really wish humanity could learn to live and love. for me, my religion advocates that. for others, they do it naturally. keep it up.
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PostPosted: Apr 16, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah but is santa clause real?
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PostPosted: Apr 18, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay what about this...the new testament was written by eyewitnesses who saw the miracles that jesus did. the new testament was put together 30 to 40 years after jesus died. more than 500 people witnessed the resurrection of jesus.

if what was written was false, wouldn't people call it total crap and call those people out for writing down false events that never happened?

it would be like if somebody was trying to publish a history book of a bunch of wrong information on the vietnam war.

and if that checks out wouldn't the rest of the bible as well?


also they're still uncovering archeological artifacts that confirm different wars and events that have happened in the bible

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