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electricsnow
cassette
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 10735
City: Jefferton
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 Posted: Mar 20, 2011 6:06 am Post subject: awesome lib tech videos and a lib tech question |
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I was snooping around because I want to buy a new lib tech for next season (or prepare to by next season's model). i came across this sweet video series on vimeo about lib and mervin manufacturing. for as crappy as the wake industry is about this stuff, I think this video sheds a lot of light on how cool, innovative and inventive some caring people who are a part of a company can be. and maybe it will make us appreciate our own inventors a little bit more.
anyway, rhetoric aside, has anyone on here ridden a skatebanana? so far that's what i"m looking at because it's size and style appropriate. but I've never ridden a rockered snowboard and I've never experienced the supposed magnificence of magne traction. what's in store for me?
http://www.vimeo.com/14659730
http://www.vimeo.com/14686496
http://www.vimeo.com/16878772
http://www.vimeo.com/16253106
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stompin9s
Backside 180
Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 2385
City: Vail - CO
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| Posted: Mar 20, 2011 10:04 am Post subject: |
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I've been on a Lib Tech since 2000 and will prob never own another brand (besides lib or gnu). I actually learned of their reputation from browsing this site. I was into the fact that they were rider owned and opperated and how they seperated themselves from other brands, mostly Burton...
Anyways - being a Lib fan boy, I bought the skate banana as soon as it came out in 2007. Magnetraction truly works and u can def feel the grip between your feet. The rocker also makes perfect sense when u think about it
Complaints about banana are that you sacrifice some pop (bc the board isn't pre loaded w camber)
This season I am riding a Power Banana Shape (which is rocker between your feet and camber under foot)...I'm liking this OK and its really good for steeps or when you get cruising really fast you feel alittle more locked in than with just rocker
rabble rabble get a banana 
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"it is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation." |
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samm
Pop Shuvit
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 241
City: Austin
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| Posted: Mar 20, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| the skate banana is a great board. i just got one this season and it rides well on anything. its a super jibby board and fun to ride. and the rocker really makes it feel like its floating when ur in powder |
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miller
Backside 180
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 2394
City: Regina
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electricsnow
cassette
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 10735
City: Jefferton
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| Posted: Mar 20, 2011 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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awesome. Thanks for the input guys! I feel a lot better about going with that technology, even though I've never used it. I looked through the lib tech board specs and it looks like things have changed since I bought my dark series. This board has a multi raidused side cut, which I really liked, and it doesn't look like they even use that technology anymore.
And I know I won't be owning another brand of snowboard either (unless the original guys would leave and things would change drastically). I'm pretty sure now they're owned by quik, but that didn't seem to change anything about their operations. they're still inventive, and seemingly ethical and concerned about people and the environment. I think that kind of effort is pretty rare...and totally awesome!
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yookyle
Backside 180
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 1002
City: Reno
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| Posted: Mar 20, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| i personally hate any boards that arent traditional camber. but ive heard good things from the people who enjoy it. its like riding a wet noodle too me |
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senorbueno
Backside 180
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 1593
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| Posted: Mar 21, 2011 12:55 am Post subject: |
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This is kinda a timely question b/c Lib is currently undergoing some patent infringement issues with NeverSummer (both filed for patents on boards that have a combination of camber and rocker, I believe Mervin filed first but NS had theres approved first). Will be interesting to see how that plays out.
I have a T. Rice BTX from 2008 or 2009, can't remember what year it is(not the C2 or whatever it's called, just banana rocker). I love it... The magnetraction edges on some of the other boards used to be too sharp (not sure if this is still the case), but on this board they are already softened up from the factory. My previous board was a Burton Custom, which I liked a lot too, but it was a tad narrow, my feet aren't huge (10.5 or 11) but apparently compared to other snowboarders they are big so I feel more comfortable on a mid-wide deck.
I've read of people having complaints that rockered boards are too loose with out magnetraction (or a other versions of sidewalls designed to increase grip). Also, they definitely have less pop than a cambered board. Been so long since I've ridden a cambered board I can't really compare it though. My board provides just the right amount of grip as well as looseness that I like.
If I were buying a snowboard today, I would buy something that was either a combination of camber and rocker, or a basic cambered board. (One side of me likes the super tech'ed out boards, and the other side likes simple clean proven designs) |
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dylo
Backside 180
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
City: Melbourne/Breckenridge
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| Posted: Mar 22, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| stompin9s wrote: | | I actually learned of their reputation from browsing this site. I was into the fact that they were rider owned and opperated and how they seperated themselves from other brands, mostly Burton... |
Couldn't be further from the truth! Mervin is just a company owned by an umbrella corporation. Its exactly what forum is to Burton!
forget burton fanboys, every punter on the hill these days is riding a park pickle or skate banana.
Mervin isn't as innovative as everyone thinks.. they didnt invent reverse camber, they didnt invent asymmetrical sidecuts, both of which they claim. now they are trying to claim their reverse camber patent, then license it to companies who can afford to pay for it. anyone they dont like or anyone who cant afford it, essentially can't build a board. how does this help snowboarding grow? innovation monopolised..
"boycott burton" - very hypocritical of mervin in hindsight |
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electricsnow
cassette
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 10735
City: Jefferton
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| Posted: Mar 23, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: |
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mervin is owned by quik, if I'm not mistaken. the one difference is the original guys are still involved and they're still making boards in the US. Does burton make any boards in the US? Maybe prototypes.
And patents in boardsports are tricky becuase most people think it's bloodsucking greed. I don't know if you saw the movie about the guy who invented the windshield wiper, but that's a really good example of an inventor who had a good idea and deserved to prosper from it, but went through hell first.
I don't know if lib or never summer invented reverse camber first. the same thing happened with the toe cap strap and it was a fight between burton and tech nine. it's not like this is anything new in snowboarding, because licensing is how every company with a toe cap strap gets away with it, and how a binding company can have a base plate that fits the burton 3 hole pattern.
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Guy
Backside 180
Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 842
City: Orillia
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| Posted: Mar 24, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| You can't get away from the big companies. If you ever watch food inc. pretty much all of the USA food supply is controlled by four companies or something like that. |
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dylo
Backside 180
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
City: Melbourne/Breckenridge
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| Posted: Mar 25, 2011 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| electricsnow wrote: | mervin is owned by quik, if I'm not mistaken. the one difference is the original guys are still involved and they're still making boards in the US. Does burton make any boards in the US? Maybe prototypes.
And patents in boardsports are tricky becuase most people think it's bloodsucking greed. I don't know if you saw the movie about the guy who invented the windshield wiper, but that's a really good example of an inventor who had a good idea and deserved to prosper from it, but went through hell first.
I don't know if lib or never summer invented reverse camber first. the same thing happened with the toe cap strap and it was a fight between burton and tech nine. it's not like this is anything new in snowboarding, because licensing is how every company with a toe cap strap gets away with it, and how a binding company can have a base plate that fits the burton 3 hole pattern. |
Neither lib or never summer invented reverse camber. There is a sims from 80's that has reverse camber. A santa cruz board from the early 90's has an asymmetrical sidecut. Mervin is all about the hype and the fanboys jump all over it like it is the best thing since sliced bread. Sure magnatraction is good in ice, but try make some nice turns down a groomer with the slightest bit of technique and you'll be jumping back on a cambered board with a traditional sidecut in no time.
If you were really into innovation and 'for riders, by riders' you could have a look at DWD (dinosaurs will die) who push the progression of the sport with their 'think thank' movies, signal snowboards who are privately owned out of southern cali and have some wicked rockered boards. Look prior snowboards in whistler if you are after back country stick.
i hate politics in sport so i don't enjoy bashing mervin. Get a new stick and shred the face off it, whether it be banana, C2 or cambered! |
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electricsnow
cassette
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 10735
City: Jefferton
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| Posted: Mar 25, 2011 7:34 am Post subject: |
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I watched some vimeo video when I was finding those mervin vids and someone mentioned the old reverse camber boards you mentioned...it might have been russel winfield. beyond that, I don't know too much about them. I just mean at this point in time with the two of them going after the patent, I really don't know who incorporated it before the other.
I just don't see mervin the way you do and in my area, mervin is not perceived that way at all (it's actually not a super popular brand here). In all honesty, I don't really care who patents what. I get it, but I don't really care. I really like the way lib techs ride and I like the way those guys do things. Plus, they're a brand that has fun, or I view their sense of humor as fun.
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yookyle
Backside 180
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 1002
City: Reno
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DRAGON88
Dragoon
Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 1020
City: Portland
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| Posted: Mar 28, 2011 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| dylo wrote: |
Neither lib or never summer invented reverse camber. There is a sims from 80's that has reverse camber. A santa cruz board from the early 90's has an asymmetrical sidecut. Mervin is all about the hype and the fanboys jump all over it like it is the best thing since sliced bread. Sure magnatraction is good in ice, but try make some nice turns down a groomer with the slightest bit of technique and you'll be jumping back on a cambered board with a traditional sidecut in no time.
If you were really into innovation and 'for riders, by riders' you could have a look at DWD (dinosaurs will die) who push the progression of the sport with their 'think thank' movies, signal snowboards who are privately owned out of southern cali and have some wicked rockered boards. Look prior snowboards in whistler if you are after back country stick.
i hate politics in sport so i don't enjoy bashing mervin. Get a new stick and shred the face off it, whether it be banana, C2 or cambered! |
You can say that Mervin didn't invent reverse camber snowboards, and that's fair. BUT, the Skate Banana completely turned the snowboard industry on its head. For that reason I find it hard to hate on them too much.
I've been riding for close to 17 years now and like to think I have a bit of "technique" and have absolutely no problem with my Skate Banana (nor the handful of other magne-traction boards I've taken out this year) on groomers. Because if nothing else that board completely spurred innovation in the snowboard industry.
There will always be riders who want cambered snowboards, and because that market exists there will definitely always be decks to cater to that (stairmaster extreme comes to mind). But, I think for most riders a rocker snowboard is the way to go, makes for a super catch free yet responsive ride.
Just my two cents.
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The aforementioned postings and musings are the opinions of myself in their entirety and are not the opinions of wakeskating.com |
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caprice150
Backside 180
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 593
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| Posted: Mar 28, 2011 1:37 am Post subject: |
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get a capita
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dylo
Backside 180
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
City: Melbourne/Breckenridge
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| Posted: Mar 28, 2011 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| DRAGON88 wrote: | | I've been riding for close to 17 years now and like to think I have a bit of "technique" and have absolutely no problem with my Skate Banana (nor the handful of other magne-traction boards I've taken out this year) on groomers. Because if nothing else that board completely spurred innovation in the snowboard industry. |
of course you have no problem, i ride a rockered board too and long lines down groomers are nice, but i don't believe for one second that anyone would choose a park pickle over something cambered with a stiffer torsional flex for speed/turns/edge to edge control.
i do agree rockered boards are the future because they are better than average in most aspects of snowboarding, a 'quiver killer' if you like |
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